When to use an FX Loop?

andyp

Hi folks.

I just got a new amp yesterday and for the first time in my short guitar playing life I've got an FX loop to play with.

Question... what goes in there and what shouldn't? I really have no idea what the benefits are and what works better or doesn't work at all. I have a few small pedals that I was using before and some of these might well be redundant now I have a drive channel, but what I have is as follows:-

Chorus, Reverb, Looper, three overdrive pedals (this will soon become one I'd imagine) and a Soul Food.

My understanding is that the chorus and reverb are better in the loop and the overdrives and Soul Food in the front... is this right? What about the looper?

This is probably a super-basic question but any advice would be a great help.

Andy

Teetonetal

I stick delay, reverb and a looper in mine. 
I prefer Chorus, phaser and flanger in front, but others like it after.

Be aware that not all fx loops are equal and some are just plain daft. so that might also have an impact. What's the amp.

andyp

Cheers. Is it more down to the sound you like than a straight correct / incorrect type of thing?

It's a Marshall DSL 5.

Benson

Some effects, particularly modulation, delay and reverb, are a little overpowering in front of the amp and are generally put in the effects loop to give you more of a wet dry blend. Try it and see what you prefer. 

andyp

Thanks. It sounds like it's trial and error then. Will have a play about tonight and see what happens.

DesVegas

I'm sure ICBM will be along shortly to say DO NOT put overdrives, distortions etc in fx loops as it can blow stuff up

Teetonetal

andyp said:

Cheers. Is it more down to the sound you like than a straight correct / incorrect type of thing?

It's a Marshall DSL 5.

Well, it also depends on if you use the gain on the amp and if that amp has a master volume. So on my blackstar and pleximan, the gain channels have master volume and the loops comes after it i think. That means my Reverb and delays pickup the amp distortion, after it's created.

Of course some people like reverb and delay into a dirty amp - sonic mayhem but can be good.

John_A

Depends what amp it is an how you play it.  If you use a lot of distortion from the amp then definitely put delays, verbs and mods in the loop, if you don't or if you use the amp clean then there really is no point in using the loop just stick all pedals up front with the drives first.

That's the usual approach, butby no means written in stone

andyp

Somehow this is what I'd been thinking - not to use overdrives etc. in the loop and to put the likes of chorus in the loop. It seems logical, but I can't quite explain why.

I had a simple, single channel, volume only amp before (home built) so all the pedals are in series and into the front of the old amp. I can get the level of gain I want now using the drive channel on the DSL so I think my overdrive pedals are pretty much redundant, but I'm going to experiment with them through the front and see what happens.

It was the likes of the looper that confused me, but I'll play with that too. The amp has a clean channel with volume only and a drive channel with gain and volume.

thomasross20

There should be a warning sign to say not to put OD in the loop.

Maynehead

Basically, anything that is used to interact with the preamp stage of the amp (such as a boost, to push it into overdrive) or anything that is designed to modify the clean signal from the guitar (such as a wah or compressor) should be in front, and anything that is designed to modify the final tone before it is amplified by the power stage (such as a delay, looper or EQ) should be in the loop.

I have my chorus infront of the amp purely because my amp's FX loop is foot switchable and I keep a delay and EQ always on in the loop to act as a solo boost. It sounds fine out front anyway.

andyp

thomasross20 said:

There should be a warning sign to say not to put OD in the loop.

Hmmm, there might be. I've not looked closely yet and the manual is still in the packet. I won't be doing anything without investigating first though.

andyp

Maynehead said:

Basically, anything that is used to interact with the preamp stage of the amp (such as a boost, to push it into overdrive) or anything that is designed to modify the clean signal from the guitar (such as a wah or compressor) should be in front, and anything that is designed to modify the final tone before it is amplified by the power stage (such as a delay, looper or EQ) should be in the loop.

I have my chorus infront of the amp purely because my amp's FX loop is foot switchable and I keep a delay and EQ always on in the loop to act as a solo boost. It sounds fine out front anyway.

Excellent, that's nice and simple and clear to follow. Spot on, that's what I'll work to and it makes sense to me. Cheers!

I forgot, I have a Cry Baby Mini too, so I'll have a front and loop section on my board and work that way.

Thanks guys.

normula1

Looper in loop so you keep whatever sound you want it to play back. So I like to noodle with a moderately dirty tone over a nice chord progression played clean with a tiny bit of chorus an a nice reverb

DesVegas

I did find that my fx loop on/off switch would 'pop' which would then be reverbed and delayed so i go all into the front now

Teetonetal

DesVegas said:

I did find that my fx loop on/off switch would 'pop' which would then be reverbed and delayed so i go all into the front now

Did you try putting in a buffer, or does that not help if it's a switch for the loop itself?

p90fool

thomasross20 said:

There should be a warning sign to say not to put OD in the loop.

Hearing it is warning enough  

JayGee

Clean boost as the last thing in the loop before it goes back to the return socket is handy - use it as a volume boost to push yourself forward in the mix a bit without altering the actual tone.

Bellycaster

The only things I used to put in my loop was the Delay and Chorus(Strymons). I had my Phaser in front of Amp, but before my Dirt Pedals and my Flanger and Tremolo in front of amp but after Dirt Pedals.

I don't bother with the effects loop anymore since I started gigging as it is too much pissing about with extra cables and I'm a lazy git. The only difference is that the delay and chorus seems to sound more "washy" in front of amp, but I remedy this by reducing the "mix" of the effect on them and then it behaves not too dissimilar to how it did in the loop.

Having said that, the delay and chorus pedals I have ideally sound better in the loop, but that difference isn't worth the hassle for 50 - 100 pissed up pub punters to muse over.

It also doesn't make it worthwhile for the volume I play at home, but in the right place and given the right freedom I probably make the effort.

andyp

Good points there too. I trialled it all tonight and it works well. The extra cables are gonna piss me off though. I've ordered a couple so hopefully I can set it all up then tie them up (gently) to keep it all neat. Turns out I have a wee bit of OCD with cables and power connections being tidy...

viz

Basically anything that alters the waveform itself (eq, wah, od, distortion, compression) goes in front so that sound profile gets preamped; effects that just modulate the waveform (time-based effects, delay, pitch, chorus, reverb, tremolo, clean boost) go in the loop so their effects just get amplified by the power stage, not coloured by the preamp. Phaser seems to work ok in either position. But try things out and see what you like (apart from od/distortion in the loop!)