Valve amp convert

thomasross20

OK, I surrender.  

Until I get my MJW I need a backup amp as my ID260 is going to go at some point. I've largely played solid state & modellers - great for home volumes and generally very reliable. I've been loaned a Blackstar HT-5RH for a week as a possible trade - going to try it on Wednesday with the band to see if I can get away with this for gigs un-mic'd. Clean might be an issue in that case, but anyway...

I tried the ID260 and the HT-5RH both through the new NL212 cab I got. Let me say, the controls on the HT-5 are very responsive - in fact I quite like how there is "less" to play with than on the ID260 - simplicity is best. So anyway... on clean you really notice the sweet "plum" quality when you hit a note on a valve amp and the general sound is just fantastic. It's good on the ID260, but it's not as good. The valve amp just felt more alive. On crunch and distortion, whist switching between the two amps quickly, I can see what people say now about "hiss" and "fizz" on solid-state/modellers. It's not terrible, I just never noticed it before now. The ID is still a GREAT amp but woah, the valve amp just felt so natural, responded so well - excellent string definition - I couldn't stop playing through it - lots of fun 

Why did I not notice these things before? Honestly, I think it's due to environment. When you're not in your own "zone" with your own guitar it's not the same. I need to lock into my "zone" - the home environment really is the test (well, the gigging environment is the true test!). 

5W *may* not be loud enough to gig (I will test this, at least in the practice room) but it's quite loud for home practice. I'm nudging it to about (maybe just below) 1 on the dial and it's about right. If the power-scaling on my 30W MJW works great then I'd seriously consider another amp like that - full whack for gigs and lower voltage for home use, extending valve life. 

I'm sure there are guff valve amps but I think I'm a total convert now. The original plan was to get an ID60 head as back-up but that's totally off the cards now. 

Thanks for @ICBM for helping me out here! 

relic245

I really liked my ht5. Try turning it up full on the clean setting, you're in a whole different league again. I think you'll find the same with the mjw, I'm sure that you will be even more blown away. You've heard the difference with even a fairly low budget valve amp, a hand wired thing such as an mjw is an even bigger step up.

thomasross20

@relic245 , liked? What do you play now?
Unfortunately I dare not turn it up any more at home. I don't think I'm a fan of these amps that have a loud sweet spot. I don't know if the ht-5 is like that?

ICBM

Ha .

And this isn't even an all-valve amp, as I was saying earlier! Just a clever hybrid which uses valves where they're most needed - the overdrive and tone stack stage, and the final power output. These are the bits that give most of the valve-amp harmonic response and dynamic feel respectively, as you've found.

I really wish this wasn't true in some ways - it would make life much easier if we could just get the same sound with solid-state - but it just does seem to be very hard to get that natural sound any other way.

I don't find there is a particular 'sweet spot' with the HT-5 - it sounds good and quite similar at all volumes other than super-whisper-quiet. The change when you have it cranked all the way up on the clean channel is that you can get a tiny bit of a bright crunch which is less middy and smooth than the more compressed sound on the drive channel.

If you want it quieter for the house there's always the 1x10" cab available .

thomasross20

Oh yes, I remember you saying it's not all valve, right enough! 

I thought it was great hearing you play it but it's a different ball-game trying it at home with gear I know. 

Cab... another part of the equation. I don't know how the NL212 compares to other cabs. Something I'll no doubt follow up on in future - though I must say the weight is excellent - very light for a 2x12. 

I think it sounds pretty good at the low volumes I've got it at.. but will try it louder on the Wednesday and see a) how it fares in a loud practice scenario and b) how the sound changes with volume (though I know we tried that at yours). 

I wish I had my MJW now Lol.. 

thomasross20

The feel and responsiveness of valve amps really doesn't come through on YouTube videos lol. 
It's also one of those things that's tough to check in a shop, I think. Like when I try guitars... I can pick up loads, and it's feel first for me. And it's no big deal to switch between guitars through one amp. And I like to try LOTS. But to try lots of different amps - I always feel like it's a bit of an ask/effort..

DanR

What about trying to find a used orange dual terror?

Fender Pro Jr. and a decent dirt pedal?

thomasross20

Every time I hear Orange distortion I think it sounds a bit fizzy which sucks because I love the look of their products.

RaymondLin

Now go buy yourself a Carol Ann/Bogner/Lazy J/Friedman/Badcat/Mesa/Carr/Milkman etc and report back 

guitarfishbay

I quite like the HT5R. You might like the 50 watt series one amp. It has power scaling, and a decent clean and crunch sound, more dynamic feeling than the HT series. I had the 104 EL34 but I honestly think crunch/super crunch are the best sounding channels on the S1s, if I got another I'd go 2 channel.

thomasross20

@RaymondLin, if only....!! 
I think guitar amps are the sort of thing I would be comfortable buying second-hand. More so than guitars. Guitars are more feel-based for me so you have to be there to try. But amps - I think there's going to be a lot to try and it would be way more costly!

Series One 50 with DPR? Sounds good but I just checked... 19kg!? No way lol.

I was thinking about emulated out or mic'ing for gigs but it's no good if you've not good a good monitor to hear yourself back. In my mind, everybody gets mic'd and has monitors or none do - all or nothing - as I imagine it'd be very hard to hear my guitar back otherwise.

richardhomer

thomasross20 said:

19kg!? No way lol.

I've played Norlin era Les Pauls which weighed more than that!

I regularly gigged a Music Man 4x10 combo and then a Mark III Boogie with EV speaker.

And try telling that to the youth of today and they won't believe you....

thomasross20

I'd definitely sacrifice tone to save my back

guitarfishbay

To be honest I agree with you that all the S1s are too heavy. The 4 channel heads are 27kg, plus the weight is not distributed evenly making it really tiring to carry. Given a Mesa Roadster is 21kg and manages to fit more stuff I don't get how the Blackstar is 6kg heavier.

Danny1969

Have you got something that can go in the loop of the HT5 to give it a boost ? That's what I do and it makes a huge difference

To be honest the HT5 is as much a valve amp as a Jubilee, yes there's some opamps in there but the main pre amp, power amp is all valve 
Whoever designed should get an award for making the quietest amp ever, I gigg'ed a Twin last night and even on the clean channel there was a slight hiss coming from it . The HT5 is deathly quiet 

thomasross20

Apparently the phase inverter is SS, and there's some sort of tubescreamer-like gain in there somewhere. 
But does it matter?

Would putting a boost pedal in the FX loops actually increase the power output > 5W rated? 

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Apparently the phase inverter is SS, and there's some sort of tubescreamer-like gain in there somewhere. 
But does it matter?

Not if you like the sound.

In practice the 'tubescreamer-like gain' section is clean until the gain control is above about 3 o'clock - which is actually much less distortion than a real TS has. The real purpose of the 'clipping' diodes in the HT amps is to prevent the valve going into blocking distortion and sounding horrible.

The phase inverter also remains clean - which is different from some valve amps, admittedly.

If you think about it, the IC gain > valve overdrive/tone stack > transistor phase inverter > valve power stage arrangement is not much different from a TS > valve amp > solid-state effects in the loop > valve power stage arrangement, and a lot of people seem perfectly happy with that!

thomasross20 said:

Would putting a boost pedal in the FX loops actually increase the power output > 5W rated? 

No, almost certainly not. It does depend slightly on where in the circuit the clipping occurs when the clean channel is turned right up, but my guess - given that it sounds very different from the drive channel - is that it's the power stage clipping. So boosting in the loop would just make that happen sooner, not make the final volume higher.

The HT-5 is quite a different '5 watts' from most 5W valve amps though - most of those are single-ended, cathode-biased types and sound very compressed when driven hard, to the point of having a distinctive 'bloom' (I hate that word but it does seem to describe the effect quite well) as the notes decay. The HT-5 is a proper miniature push-pull fixed-bias amp just like most large amps - even though it appears to have only one power valve, it's a dual-triode type so it's actually a pair. It seems quite a lot louder, both in clean headroom and in the maximum distorted volume it can produce.

If anything I think that's part of why I prefer the HT-1 - the 1 is cathode-biased (although also push-pull) and so has more of that compression, so sounds 'looser' as well as not having as much clean headroom relative to maximum volume.

thomasross20

Wish I'd taken the HT1 to try as well, ICBM - probably should have!

ICBM

Take it as a backup once you've got the HT-5 .

RaymondLin

So that friend of mine who has the Mesa JP2C, the amp he has upgraded from is the HT-5 (combo), and he says the Mesa can get him tones that he can't get with his HT-5.

He can finally nail Master of Puppets (although he fluke that with the settings he says), and the gain on tap is off the charts.

My point is that if you have a taste now for valve amps, there is still lots of room for improvements.

ChrisCox1994

fender blues deluxe 2nd hand and some nice pedals, job done