Anyone abandoned individual pedals and gone back to a multi-FX?

professorben

Or line6 will do a Boss and release a basic multi fx in 5 years time with the Engine of their top of the line Helix....... Which is still the same unit. 

digitalscream

I think the Fractal stuff's depreciation is a bit misleading - their gear tends to hold its value a bit longer in the market purely because it's so damn hard to buy the things in the first place. By restricting the supply, they've managed to preserve the value.

Look at how quickly the Eleven Rack lost its value from "reasonably high end" to "budget", though; Thomann were selling the non-Pro Tools version brand new for £350-odd a couple of years back.

professorben

digitalscream said:

I think the Fractal stuff's depreciation is a bit misleading - their gear tends to hold its value a bit longer in the market purely because it's so damn hard to buy the things in the first place. By restricting the supply, they've managed to preserve the value.

Look at how quickly the Eleven Rack lost its value from "reasonably high end" to "budget", though; Thomann were selling the non-Pro Tools version brand new for £350-odd a couple of years back.

This, either the tech will filter down through the lower ranked units, or the companies update and cripple their own product. 
The thing that amazes me is how Strymon are still charging £430 plus for a delay unit that's had zero upgrades or adaptions since its launch over 8 years ago........

markblack

I sold off my entire pedal collection after I bought a Helix. I bought a Pigtronix Looper as the looper on the Helix is too basic. And I kept my Echorec as I like it. So I'm not going 'pedal free'.

I know that my pedal collection would have retained it's value better, but for me the Helix has been amazing. It just works. No messing around, no need to buy 'another pedal'.

The Helix is technology and will be worth half what I paid for it in couple of years time, but if you just buy gear for resale value you end up in a different place. I ONLY bought pedal S/H and ones that other people liked as I knew I could move them on again. Which when you think about it is kinda mad... I ended up with a board that was popular and cost effective rather than mine.

What's amazed me about the Helix is not just how good it sounds (I'm not a tone snob), but how easy it is to use. And how clever it is.

For example I can plug my guitar into it, a mic into it and link it to my laptop and record with just a USB cord. 

I had no intention at all of buying a Helix, but I went into Yamaha London and got one for a good price (I hate spending money on myself) Yes I could of held out for a year when they will be £750 S/H but that's a year of not enjoying using it. Which I have.

Personally I think if you like the tinkering side of boards then pedals are great fun, I just found I spent more time making a board and less time playing.

What sets the Helix apart for me is the interface, it's so well thought out. And I don't have to use a mac to get the most out of it. I sit in front of a mac all day, I don't want to go near one when I go home

The other thing that made me go Helix was that I could try one. In central London it's hard to find modelling gear (you can't move for boutique pedals )

monquixote

Awesome post

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

I suppose so. I sold my Axe FX II MkII a while back for £1250, but that's what I paid for it 2nd hand too so....

I don't anticipate there being a Helix MKII until at least another 3 or 4 years tbh.

It'd probably only be a Helix X anyway.

Tech depreciates, time is valuable.  I'm perfectly happy with digital for guitars, nobody has properly modelled the bass stuff I like to use yet though.

menamestom

meltedbuzzbox said:

Drew_TNBD said:

andyoz said:

I'll resist until Helix's are floating about at sub £400.

Neeevvvveeerrrr gonnaaaa happpeennn...

They are already going for £750 or less used

Where?  Ebay sold prices look to be £850-£900. Might be interested in one at less than £750....

Slimbert

After going round the houses with all kinds of pedals I've gone back to what I used over a decade ago.....a BOSS GT-6 and a Digitech Whammy. The only change being I now use a Whammy DT rather than the XP-100.

It just works for me. Simple to use once used to the interface and the sound quality of everything, bar the drives, is plenty good enough. My board is much easier to wire up and much lighter than it was a few months ago.

Can't see me changing anything any time soon. All my GAS has gone!

andyoz

One sold on here for £725.  I'd say used price will settle at 2/3rds New price until a revision appears and then it'll go closer to 1/3rd so yes, years away.  Wonder if the new price will soften a bit in 6mths as Yamaha starts to recoup R&D costs?

Line6's roll out plan the next 2-3 years is all fine and good but they can't control what their competitors do.

Jeannies out of the bottle (although Yamaha will be hard to beat at their own game)

Strymon MFX anyone??

Wazmeister

markblack said:

I sold off my entire pedal collection after I bought a Helix. I bought a Pigtronix Looper as the looper on the Helix is too basic. And I kept my Echorec as I like it. Some I'm not going 'pedal free'.

I know that my pedal collection would have retained it's value better, but for me the Helix has been amazing. It just works. No messing around, no need to buy 'another pedal'.

The Helix is technology and will be worth half what I paid for it in couple of years time, but if you just buy gear for resale value you end up in a different place. I ONLY bought pedal S/H and ones that other people liked as I knew I could move them on again. Which when you think about it is kinda mad... I ended up with a board that was popular and cost effective rather than mine.

What's amazed me about the Helix is not just how good it sounds (I'm not a tone snob), but how easy it is to use. And how clever it is.

For example I can plug my guitar into it, a mic into it and link it to my laptop and record with just a USB cord. 

I had no intention at all of buying a Helix, but I went into Yamaha London and got one for a good price (I hate spending money on myself) Yes I could of held out for a year when they will be £750 S/H but that's a year of not enjoying using it. Which I have.

Personally I think if you like the tinkering side of boards then pedals are great fun, I just found I spent more time making a board and less time playing.

What sets the Helix apart for me is the interface, it's so well thought out. And I don't have to use a mac to get the most out of it. I sit in front of a mac all day, I don't want to go near one when I go home

The other thing that made me go Helix was that I could try one. In central London it's hard to find modelling gear (you can't move for boutique pedals )

Great post, and I feel exactly the same about the FX8. Changed everything.

mellowsun

I can't see Strymon doing an MFX as it would kill the market for their single FX pedals.

They are also product marketing geniuses at getting people to buy the same tech multiple times (brigadier, el cap, dig, timeline) so why kill the golden goose?

John_A

All this talk of depreciation.  I shelled out full RRP for a Helix knowing full well I could have waited 12 months and saved a good chunk of change.  However, I'm gigging, writing, playing and recording now and getting all the benefit of owning the Helix now.  I'm so glad I bought it, haven't plugged in an amp or a pedal since I did, so I spend much more time playing rather than fiddling with stuff.  You can't buy time, so waiting 12 months to save £600 really is false economy  

welshboyo

I've now had both the FX8 and the Helix.

The Helix for me is the better of the 2, easier to use, and (sorry Fractal) sounds better. 

Ok, I'll admit that it needs a little more thought setting up in 4CM (as lets remember, its a modeller as well, much like the AX8 which also needs tweaking for 4CM) but once you are there its faultless.

Can't ever see me going back to pedals unless I have (another) mid life crisis and decide that a 4 ton pedalboard and 2 miles of patch cables is the way to go..

Haven't delved into the direct route ( the reason for Helix) yet, but I have sneaked my cab mic cable into the back of the Helix at a gig soundcheck and it produced a sound that I could quite easily live with!!!

Depreciation - well, moot point being an ex-FX8 owner - they have taken a hit due to the impending FX8 MK2 coming out, I have a theory that Fractal don't appear to loose money as the Fanboys tend to hoard their kit anyway so it never hits the used market in any anger when new units are released, so we never see the real drops - we normally see stuff come on the market a good 4/5 years after release when they want to buy the newest Fractal gadget and therefore need to make space in their rack...

I loved the FX8, real quality piece of gear, what I didn't like was the community (Waz, Oct and the guys on here notwithstanding) - a real snobbery about them and a real worship mentality towards Cliff - the guy could drop the smelliest of farts and I'm sure they would all be gushing about it.........

Line 6 seems to be a bit more "workman" about things and just get on with it and don't get into the whole brown nose shit..

johnonguitar

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of have a multi-fx and a few choice pedals on board? Don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds!!

ps. Considering Strymon is getting s price hike etc. Then anyone selling a Helix at sub £750 needs to have a word with themselves 

Teetonetal

The thing is, how good can it get? Helix for me sounds every bit as good as most of my pedals. Sure there are some things it can't do, but as a hobby musician I struggle to see how I'd ever need anything more, which wasn't true of the POD, HD and Boss GT6 I used to have.

So long as the HW stays good, I suspect I will only have to move it on when it stops being compatible with my MAC or PC, as it's now my main audio interface. I have an old cubase interface and a MI Audio Oxygen keyboard/controller that were absolutely in good working order and fulfilled my needs, but the tech around them stopped supporting them, so they became defunct.

Even then, if it still works, Helix could easily remain my pedal board. I still think it has lots of updates to come, but I struggle to see what version 2 will bring to the party that I absolutely have to have?

Teetonetal

John_A said:

All this talk of depreciation.  I shelled out full RRP for a Helix knowing full well I could have waited 12 months and saved a good chunk of change.  However, I'm gigging, writing, playing and recording now and getting all the benefit of owning the Helix now.  I'm so glad I bought it, haven't plugged in an amp or a pedal since I did, so I spend much more time playing rather than fiddling with stuff.  You can't buy time, so waiting 12 months to save £600 really is false economy  

Wisdom. It's been a game changer for me, especially at home. My old system was a real pita. Helix is a dream and helps me play more often. Besides, for something so expensive, it's also nice to the warranty, which you lose when buying 2nd hand. 

johnonguitar

I went to use a patch at a pub gig a few weeks ago that I hadn't used in a while. In truth I had only used it once. Was just a covers gig but I had to go direct. Was just a Deluxe and a bunch of effects.

when I loaded up the patch none of the switches or expression pedals were assigned to any of the effects. This included some switches that have multiple actions etc.

i discovered this just as we started sound checking.... By the time it was my turn to line check the guitar, after the drums, bass and vocals/acoustic I had already programmed the 10 switches and 2 expression pedals back to what they were

show me ANY other unit you can do that with

welshboyo

johnonguitar said:

I went to use a patch at a pub gig a few weeks ago that I hadn't used in a while. In truth I had only used it once. Was just a covers gig but I had to go direct. Was just a Deluxe and a bunch of effects.

when I loaded up the patch none of the switches or expression pedals were assigned to any of the effects. This included some switches that have multiple actions etc.

i discovered this just as we started sound checking.... By the time it was my turn to line check the guitar, after the drums, bass and vocals/acoustic I had already programmed the 10 switches and 2 expression pedals back to what they were

show me ANY other unit you can do that with

Exactly this......I can't believe how easy it is, all of the previous concerns about menu's after menu's is long gone with the Helix.

professorben

johnonguitar said:

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of have a multi-fx and a few choice pedals on board? Don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds!!

ps. Considering Strymon is getting s price hike etc. Then anyone selling a Helix at sub £750 needs to have a word with themselves 

yep I did. 
Used to use my Vox Tonelab Le with a SD-1w in the internal loop. 

Tuscan777

This reminded me I've got an old Digitech GNX3000 in the loft, I used to use it straight to the desk in a previous band. The only downside was latency when switching patches, but in 'stompbox' mode it sounded great. May give it a whirl again after reading all of the above.