PSA for Dog owners

Mkjackary

Apologies if this sounds like an Ad, it isn't meant to be.

Basically, through a friend we were told about Tails.com, basically you put in the weight, breed (or breeds if it is a cross), amount of exercise, how many treats you give them, if you mix dry and wet food, if so what with, their age etc etc of your dog, and they make a blend of food just for your dog, along with a serving size thing for them and it gets delivered to your door every month. 

We mix half a tin of chappie with some dry food, and feed him once a day. They take that into account and give you an adjustable serving cup and with a recommended setting and amount of cups.

We have a Bernese mountain dog cross border collie and it works out to be £19 a month including delivery, if you have a little rat chihuahua it will be a lot cheaper, and I think you get a discount if you have multiple dogs.

You can go onto the website and change delivery dates if you need some more/have too much, and you can update their weight etc. And the coolest part is everything has your dog's name printed on it. (Yes our dog is called Marshall, and yes he is named after the amplifier ) 

If you are referred by someone else then you get 2 weeks for £1 including delivery, and the person who refers you gets a tenner off of their next order or a tenner to give to Dog's Trust. If you want to have a two week trial you can google for the generic code, or you can use mine, either works the same. Our code is JACKACFM

Here are some pictures:

Mkjackary

Shameless Dog pic

fields5069

That looks pretty cool. Price for our Cavalier / Bichon cross was £18 for 5kg, but they reckon that's a month's worth and I'm sure that would last him longer than that.

Raw is supposed to be best too, but getting that by mail order is probably not a viable business.

Edit to say it beats Lily's Kitchen food though, which is £40 for 7.5kg.

lloyd

Lovely dog.

Mine is on raw food wouldn't give him anything else in fairness-gets delivered to your door frozen and they do treats like bulls cocks, turkey necks and chicken wings.

Seems like a more natural diet for a dog to me than the dry food or tins of dog food.

His turds are better since being on it, doesn't fart hardly at all and skin/coat much better.

It's about £2-2.50  per package and he eats 1/3 a day so 70p a day, he is a little rat (sausage dog) so bigger dogs would eat more obviously but I'd pay a lot more for it.

I've had a quick look at the ingredients in that, it's got meat meal and beet pulp (possibly others) in it which according to an investigation into dog food companies (http://iheartdogs.com/company-researches-2200-dog-food-formulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/) isn't good for dogs, it's not something I'd feed mine or recommend sorry.

fields5069

@lloyd, where do you get your raw food from please? Ours would probably eat more and indeed seems to be doing well on Lily's Kitchen dry food, but it's always good to look into these things.

lloyd

@fields5069 ;http://www.nutriment.co/dog-range/

Nutriment, they're an awesome company, 85% meat with filler like carrots, flax seeds, coconut oil, kelp, sesame seeds etc they don't fuck about, I preach to all dog owners about them! (I'm not affiliated BTW) for me it's the difference between feeding yourself processed ready meals all the time to preparing your own meals from fresh ingredients.

I found them as my dog was fussy and getting a bit fat (due to being too cute and my GF being a softy) this stuff he loves and his weight has gone into the normal range and as I said, turds, farts, coat, breath and skin all much better.

The report I quoted above is a bit of an eye opener and even the top brands such as Royal Canin come out as unsatisfactory. 

Sporky

Sprocket's on raw too - there are at least three local pet shops that have freezers full of decent stuff. She gets some pellets, but a good chunk of her diet is things like turkey or duck necks (because they have bone in them).

Chicken does not come out nicely so we do have to check for the presence of chicken.

joneve

allaboutdogfood.co.uk is what you need (thanks Sporky)

Reviews of basically every dog food and the good and bad shit that they contain for your dog. 

We use Wainwrights, which is Pets At Home's own stuff. It's not the best stuff on the market, I'm sure, but we've been told by various vets (and others) that it's pretty decent. Since we changed our Springer, she's no longer hyper, never farts (well occasionally, but they're usually loud (which startles her) and not smelly...and has just generally improved her coat, demeanour, shits are generally fine (she does "spaniel poos" when she's been giving it absolute socks in the woods, and they come out a bit "soft serve"..but every spaniel owner we know as the same issue!) etc...so we're reluctant to change. 

Sporky

This reminds me that we have an entire bags-worth of Orijen, and a SimpleHuman petfood bin, that are now surplus to requirements - Sprocket wasn't digesting it.

Any takers?

Mkjackary

lloyd said:

Lovely dog.

Mine is on raw food wouldn't give him anything else in fairness-gets delivered to your door frozen and they do treats like bulls cocks, turkey necks and chicken wings.

Seems like a more natural diet for a dog to me than the dry food or tins of dog food.

His turds are better since being on it, doesn't fart hardly at all and skin/coat much better.

It's about £2-2.50  per package and he eats 1/3 a day so 70p a day, he is a little rat (sausage dog) so bigger dogs would eat more obviously but I'd pay a lot more for it.

I've had a quick look at the ingredients in that, it's got meat meal and beet pulp (possibly others) in it which according to an investigation into dog food companies (http://iheartdogs.com/company-researches-2200-dog-food-formulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/) isn't good for dogs, it's not something I'd feed mine or recommend sorry.

Thanks

We thought about raw chicken and such but don't want to risk it with bones, I know it should be fine as they are animals who naturally would eat that, plus we have nowhere to store that much frozen food, but boss' orders and all that.

It does have beet pulp and meat meal, but beet pulp is just a source of fibre, there are claims it causes a load of bad things but they are just claims, and their is no proof of this as long as it isn't taken in excess. All of the studies done on this are using horses, and using beet pulp as around 50% of their daily calorific intake, which is nothing like the amount used in dog food.

And meat meal is one of those things that can be great for dogs as long as it is from a good source, or terrible, using spoiled meat and potentially diseased animals etc. However tails uses meat fit for human consumption, which is good enough. Unlike other foods it has many sources of protein such as chicken breast, and loads of other real meats combined with meat meal, as opposed to just meat meal. I have just checked Marshalls 'blend' and beef is the main meet, then meat meal, then chicken breast, then some fish and gravy. Even though meat meal is the second largest ingredient, the chicken, fish, gravy and beef massively outweigh it. A lot of dog foods use meat meal soley.
 
It also has wheat, but this has been proven to be good for dogs as long as the dog is not allergic to it, which is actually very rare.

Edit: Just noticed some blends have maize in there too, but our dog's blend doesn't. Doing some research it isn't bad for dogs either, manufacturers say it is nutritional and that is all BS, it is just used to make food cheaper by adding some calories. And again, it is fine as long as it is of decent quality (again tails use quality fit for human consumption).
Not that it matters for us as it is not in our blend of food.
/edit

It doesn't have flour, or soy, which many people believe to be bad for dogs.

It also doesn't have any of the really bad things such as artificial colourings/flavourings or dangerous chemicals like a lot of mainstream dog foods have. 

One of the positives for us about tails is that it knows Bernese have joint problems, so it adds in a certain amount of chondroitin and glucosamine to help with that. It does similar things with other health issues too (such as skin irritation, sensitive digestion, weak immune system etc). The other alternative is to buy breed specific food, but then your choice is very slim, and they are usually extortionate prices, and hard to find. Plus they don't account for the fact that our dog is a cross.

We did a lot of research and as we can't switch over to raw foods, this (Tails food) is a massive step above the rest, and certainly better than Bakers/the majority of mainstream foods. For the price (9kg for £19.04 inc delivery), and the benefits this has over standard foods, (such as being tailored to your breed's needs health wise) this was the best option for us.

Sporky

Mkjackary said:

We thought about raw chicken and such but don't want to risk it with bones

Sprocket - before we removed all the chicken from her diet - would crunch through a chicken wing like you or I would crunch a ginger nut. She has no problems at all with turkey or duck necks, and a while back we gave her a whole pheasant (guts removed) - even the skull didn't slow her down appreciably, though she did stop for a while to play throw-and-catch with it. Which was a bit disturbing.

That said I'm not (I hope) evangelical about a raw diet. It works for our dog where the alternatives did not.

lloyd

Mkjackary said:

lloyd said:

Lovely dog.

Mine is on raw food wouldn't give him anything else in fairness-gets delivered to your door frozen and they do treats like bulls cocks, turkey necks and chicken wings.

Seems like a more natural diet for a dog to me than the dry food or tins of dog food.

His turds are better since being on it, doesn't fart hardly at all and skin/coat much better.

It's about £2-2.50  per package and he eats 1/3 a day so 70p a day, he is a little rat (sausage dog) so bigger dogs would eat more obviously but I'd pay a lot more for it.

I've had a quick look at the ingredients in that, it's got meat meal and beet pulp (possibly others) in it which according to an investigation into dog food companies (http://iheartdogs.com/company-researches-2200-dog-food-formulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/) isn't good for dogs, it's not something I'd feed mine or recommend sorry.

Thanks

We thought about raw chicken and such but don't want to risk it with bones, I know it should be fine as they are animals who naturally would eat that, plus we have nowhere to store that much frozen food, but boss' orders and all that.

It does have beet pulp and meat meal, but beet pulp is just a source of fibre, there are claims it causes a load of bad things but they are just claims, and their is no proof of this as long as it isn't taken in excess. All of the studies done on this are using horses, and using beet pulp as around 50% of their daily calorific intake, which is nothing like the amount used in dog food.

And meat meal is one of those things that can be great for dogs as long as it is from a good source, or terrible, using spoiled meat and potentially diseased animals etc. However tails uses meat fit for human consumption, which is good enough. Unlike other foods it has many sources of protein such as chicken breast, and loads of other real meats combined with meat meal, as opposed to just meat meal. I have just checked Marshalls 'blend' and beef is the main meet, then meat meal, then chicken breast, then some fish and gravy. Even though meat meal is the second largest ingredient, the chicken, fish, gravy and beef massively outweigh it. A lot of dog foods use meat meal soley.
 
It also has wheat, but this has been proven to be good for dogs as long as the dog is not allergic to it, which is actually very rare.

Edit: Just noticed some blends have maize in there too, but our dog's blend doesn't. Doing some research it isn't bad for dogs either, manufacturers say it is nutritional and that is all BS, it is just used to make food cheaper by adding some calories. And again, it is fine as long as it is of decent quality (again tails use quality fit for human consumption).
Not that it matters for us as it is not in our blend of food.
/edit

It doesn't have flour, or soy, which many people believe to be bad for dogs.

It also doesn't have any of the really bad things such as artificial colourings/flavourings or dangerous chemicals like a lot of mainstream dog foods have. 

One of the positives for us about tails is that it knows Bernese have joint problems, so it adds in a certain amount of chondroitin and glucosamine to help with that. It does similar things with other health issues too (such as skin irritation, sensitive digestion, weak immune system etc). The other alternative is to buy breed specific food, but then your choice is very slim, and they are usually extortionate prices, and hard to find. Plus they don't account for the fact that our dog is a cross.

We did a lot of research and as we can't switch over to raw foods, this (Tails food) is a massive step above the rest, and certainly better than Bakers/the majority of mainstream foods. For the price (9kg for £19.04 inc delivery), and the benefits this has over standard foods, (such as being tailored to your breed's needs health wise) this was the best option for us.

Cool, I just had a quick glance at the ingredients. Interesting links too.

With regard to raw food, there are some bones in it but it's all minced up-it looks pretty much like minced beef you buy from the supermarket, so it's not full bones-obviously the turkey necks and chicken wings have bones, but they're treats that he gets and supervised (they're uncooked).

Storage can be an issue, my freezer isn't very big, but I don't really have anything in it apart from ice and dog food.

Mkjackary

Sporky said:

Mkjackary said:

We thought about raw chicken and such but don't want to risk it with bones

Sprocket - before we removed all the chicken from her diet - would crunch through a chicken wing like you or I would crunch a ginger nut. She has no problems at all with turkey or duck necks, and a while back we gave her a whole pheasant (guts removed) - even the skull didn't slow her down appreciably, though she did stop for a while to play throw-and-catch with it. Which was a bit disturbing.

That said I'm not (I hope) evangelical about a raw diet. It works for our dog where the alternatives did not.

Yeah, it is more about my mum, one of her friends dogs had quite a serious injury from a bone splinter. Plus Marshall gulps down food so fast I don't think he would properly chew a lot of it, which is what can cause problems with bones. Not such an issue with small dogs, but bigger dogs need to be careful with chicken, turkey is a lot better for them

Raw food is a great option, but it isn't the only option. A lot of people read the stuff online about normal dog food, and then feed dogs only raw chicken breast, which can leave them without a lot of the nutrients that dogs need, making it potentially a lot less healthy than even the worst dog food.

Mkjackary

lloyd said:

Cool, I just had a quick glance at the ingredients. Interesting links too.

With regard to raw food, there are some bones in it but it's all minced up-it looks pretty much like minced beef you buy from the supermarket, so it's not full bones-obviously the turkey necks and chicken wings have bones, but they're treats that he gets and supervised (they're uncooked).

Storage can be an issue, my freezer isn't very big, but I don't really have anything in it apart from ice and dog food.

Ahh, see we have only looked into buying raw chicken breast in bulk, a dog shelter we used to know would do that.
I guess as you have a much smaller dog storage won't be that bad haha.

We currently have 7 people living in our house, so excess freezer space is zero 

Mkjackary

Also just remembered when you fill out the information form you can say if you want them to exclude any particular foods, 
you can ask them to exclude dairy, grain, maize, wheat, and hypoallergenic foods, or any of the meats, the only thing that you could potentially think is bad that you can't get them to exclude is the beet pulp. So even if you do still feel iffy about wheat/corn for instance you can exclude it from the food.

lloyd

Mkjackary said:

lloyd said:

Cool, I just had a quick glance at the ingredients. Interesting links too.

With regard to raw food, there are some bones in it but it's all minced up-it looks pretty much like minced beef you buy from the supermarket, so it's not full bones-obviously the turkey necks and chicken wings have bones, but they're treats that he gets and supervised (they're uncooked).

Storage can be an issue, my freezer isn't very big, but I don't really have anything in it apart from ice and dog food.

Ahh, see we have only looked into buying raw chicken breast in bulk, a dog shelter we used to know would do that.
I guess as you have a much smaller dog storage won't be that bad haha.

We currently have 7 people living in our house, so excess freezer space is zero 

I think it's a misconception about raw food, it's 85% meat/bones then the rest is carrots, flax, kelp etc and then (I assume) that's all fed through a grinder.

Aye he's a sausage dog so one pack (about the size of a ready meal container) does him for 3 days, so I tend to buy 5 or so at a time.Mkjackary said:

Also just remembered when you fill out the information form you can say if you want them to exclude any particular foods, 
you can ask them to exclude dairy, grain, maize, wheat, and hypoallergenic foods, or any of the meats, the only thing that you could potentially think is bad that you can't get them to exclude is the beet pulp. So even if you do still feel iffy about wheat/corn for instance you can exclude it from the food.

That's pretty cool. I don't like to come across too preachy, but see a lot of dog owners feeding their dogs food that's just no good for them, I think it's cruel.

Mkjackary

lloyd said:

Mkjackary said:

lloyd said:

Cool, I just had a quick glance at the ingredients. Interesting links too.

With regard to raw food, there are some bones in it but it's all minced up-it looks pretty much like minced beef you buy from the supermarket, so it's not full bones-obviously the turkey necks and chicken wings have bones, but they're treats that he gets and supervised (they're uncooked).

Storage can be an issue, my freezer isn't very big, but I don't really have anything in it apart from ice and dog food.

Ahh, see we have only looked into buying raw chicken breast in bulk, a dog shelter we used to know would do that.
I guess as you have a much smaller dog storage won't be that bad haha.

We currently have 7 people living in our house, so excess freezer space is zero 

I think it's a misconception about raw food, it's 85% meat/bones then the rest is carrots, flax, kelp etc and then (I assume) that's all fed through a grinder.

Aye he's a sausage dog so one pack (about the size of a ready meal container) does him for 3 days, so I tend to buy 5 or so at a time.Mkjackary said:

Also just remembered when you fill out the information form you can say if you want them to exclude any particular foods, 
you can ask them to exclude dairy, grain, maize, wheat, and hypoallergenic foods, or any of the meats, the only thing that you could potentially think is bad that you can't get them to exclude is the beet pulp. So even if you do still feel iffy about wheat/corn for instance you can exclude it from the food.

That's pretty cool. I don't like to come across too preachy, but see a lot of dog owners feeding their dogs food that's just no good for them, I think it's cruel.

No a lot of people don't realise, especially when people buy the cheapest thing there is/whatever is on offer. There are certainly some people who just shouldn't own dogs. A neighbour only feeds her shih tzu human food, lasagna, processed foods and the like, he shits like hot chocolate and has the worst temperament you could imagine. (very barky/agressive, and also isn't neutered)
We went with bakers because we thought as it is expensive and a name brand it would be decent, but it is far from it. Hence why we switched.

And I will have a look at that raw food, by raw I assumed you meant pure raw meat. (which is also a common way to feed dogs)

fields5069

My understanding is that raw bones are softer, cooking makes them brittle and harder hence bad. My Cavachon, slightly bigger than a Cavalier, sometimes spots a stray cooked bone on the street, and if he gets it in his mouth then there's nothing I can do to get it out. A failing on my part as he is trainable but hard work, so an unequivocal "drop" is not possible. He's snaffled down 2 or 3 in his time and it freaks me out with worry, but so far no ill effects.

Neil

lloyd said:

Lovely dog.

Mine is on raw food wouldn't give him anything else in fairness-gets delivered to your door frozen and they do treats like bulls cocks, turkey necks and chicken wings.

Seems like a more natural diet for a dog to me than the dry food or tins of dog food.

His turds are better since being on it, doesn't fart hardly at all and skin/coat much better.

It's about £2-2.50  per package and he eats 1/3 a day so 70p a day, he is a little rat (sausage dog) so bigger dogs would eat more obviously but I'd pay a lot more for it.

I've had a quick look at the ingredients in that, it's got meat meal and beet pulp (possibly others) in it which according to an investigation into dog food companies (http://iheartdogs.com/company-researches-2200-dog-food-formulas-and-finds-only-119-to-be-satisfactory/) isn't good for dogs, it's not something I'd feed mine or recommend sorry.

Thanks for posting that list.

Just checked and the stuff I feed Dot is in the top 25. K9 Natural.

joneve

fields5069 said:

My understanding is that raw bones are softer, cooking makes them brittle and harder hence bad. My Cavachon, slightly bigger than a Cavalier, sometimes spots a stray cooked bone on the street, and if he gets it in his mouth then there's nothing I can do to get it out. A failing on my part as he is trainable but hard work, so an unequivocal "drop" is not possible. He's snaffled down 2 or 3 in his time and it freaks me out with worry, but so far no ill effects.

Fucking hell. Try owning a Spaniel...She knows she's not supposed to have stuff, but she absolutely insists on trying to eat stuff she's not supposed to. 

We walk her in a field (that's enclosed and designed for dogs) most mornings, and there's a Conker tree in there, as well as an apple tree and there are a few spots where mushrooms/fungi grow.

Apples are OK for dogs (though they're not supposed to have the seeds as they contain arsenic, so a high volume of them can be harmful), but fuck knows if the mushrooms are toxic and they're not supposed to eat conkers either (but the shell is safe apparently). 

But trouble is, unless we keep her on a lead, if she sniffs one out, she's bound to try it if she's not allowed it. Little shit! Yet, she won't touch rubbish, food packaging etc that's on the ground...

lloyd

fields5069 said:

My understanding is that raw bones are softer, cooking makes them brittle and harder hence bad. My Cavachon, slightly bigger than a Cavalier, sometimes spots a stray cooked bone on the street, and if he gets it in his mouth then there's nothing I can do to get it out. A failing on my part as he is trainable but hard work, so an unequivocal "drop" is not possible. He's snaffled down 2 or 3 in his time and it freaks me out with worry, but so far no ill effects.

I walk mine through Manchester City Centre, his legs are 3 inches long so chicken bones are a constant worry-he's had a few in his time but I go fishing in his mouth-he tries to keep it closed, which is fun, and once bit my thumb (accidentally) surprising how hard a sausage dog can bite and how sharp his teeth are!

Raw bones are ok, but I always keep an eye on him with them-bird bones in chicken wings are basically like cartilage when uncooked so they're fine.

He does get a marrow bone occasionally but it's so big he scrapes bits off it (basically like sawdust) and swallows them, he's not left alone with it though.

I have given him a pigs spine in the past but am wary of that as he was snapping pieces off and swallowing them and some of them looked sharp-I wouldn't give him another one.