Religion in School

DefaultM

My 5 year old keeps coming home from school and making statements such as "God made everything". We don't send him to a religious school and we aren't religious ourselves.

 A relative has recently died so we thought perhaps someone had told him this person was in heaven to comfort him, but when questioned he said that it was something he'd learned in school.
My concern is that he's being very matter of fact about it, so instead of saying "I learned some people believe in Jesus, and others believe in Allah" etc he's saying that the school are telling him God is in the sky looking after everyone.
He doesn't know about any other religions and he doesn't know anything about science.

Before we confront the school about it and potentially get in to an awkward situation; has anyone else dealt with this? Is it something we should just ignore and see if he continues to believe as he gets older?

I'm not going to tell him that he isn't allowed to believe in God, but I will have an issue if someone is telling him that he does as a matter of fact and they arent presenting all the other beliefs as options.

lloyd

I'd be speaking to the school about this and voicing my displeasure.

fields5069

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

lloyd

I don't mean all guns blazing but tell them the crack, as above if he's being fed this version from school, then an alternative view needs to be given from your end.

I'm not sure at that age it's better to give them the spiel that Grandad is looking down at them from heaven, I probably would to be fair to avoid heartache.

EricTheWeary

At primary school we had prayers and hymns every morning. Long time ago now but I'm still not sure what business it was of a state school to do that, although I found it all very boring rather than filling me with the holy spirit.

Yes, just have a polite word with his teacher. If you aren't satisfied then go above his/ her head. Although at 5 understanding comparative religion and science is a big ask and if they are teaching it perhaps they've just started with God and the baby Jesus. Perhaps next term he'll come home from school with a few Buddhist chants. But worth clarifying the situation before deciding the teacher is trying to indoctrinate your child.It may even be explained somewhere on the school website or one of the school newsletters that no one ever reads.  

Axe_meister

Have faith that your child will see through the bullshit eventually.
We are not a religious household but we don't ram atheism down our kids throats either.
My son actually got in trouble for calling his teacher out on religion.
The problem is most UK schools are run on Christian principles even if they are not a church school.

monquixote

My sister had loads of problems with this.

Her daughter would come home saying. "Mummy do you have Jesus in your heart?" And stuff like that.

It was a non religious school but the teacher thought it was her right to save the children from sin.

menamestom

I normally tell my kids why the idea of God is an implausible concept and then tell them to be good otherwise Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth fairly wont come to give them shit.

english_bob

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

lloyd

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

fields5069

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

Eh? I don't think you understood, I am sometimes unclear in my witterings I have to admit. But I think there is a very plausible argument that it came about as a means to understand the unknown.

guitarfishbay

I went to C of E Primary and Secondary schools.  At this age your kid will listen to whatever adults will tell him.  When he gets older he'll be able to make his own mind up.  I remember that the majority of the people I knew at secondary school would not describe themselves as Christians... to some extent it is just parents taking kids to Church to get them in to the better ranked Schools.

If the school is not supposed to be religious then I think it is fair to bring this up with the school.  

tampadragon

I'm not looking forward to this when my son is at school.
I'm not religious in the slightest, but understand some people are and that's up to them. It's when it's rammed down the throats of non believers that it annoys me!
My opinion is that no non-religious school should teach any religion to children, if their parents feel they should believe in this stuff, it's their role to put this on the child, not the schools!
If they have to teach it, then it should be taught in an un-biased way by a teacher who has no beliefs and presented as facts about the religion in full. For example about all the people killed in the crusades, in the name of god. And about the oppression to women that some religions promote as rule! Rather than teaching it as if it is the righteous path and all should believe!

english_bob

fields5069 said:

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

Eh? I don't think you understood, I am sometimes unclear in my witterings I have to admit. But I think there is a very plausible argument that it came about as a means to understand the unknown.

   What didn't I understand? 

I don't really understand the relevance of the origin of religion to your point. How else would it have come about? What difference does it make?

JezWynd

You think you have problems! My grandson just started infant school and they have a policy of only speaking Welsh.

lloyd

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

Eh? I don't think you understood, I am sometimes unclear in my witterings I have to admit. But I think there is a very plausible argument that it came about as a means to understand the unknown.

   What didn't I understand? 

I don't really understand the relevance of the origin of religion to your point. How else would it have come about? What difference does it make?

He said "why religion came about" not "how" religion came about.

We can make fairly educated guesses for the reasons behind why humans feel the need to create religion, fear of death, having a purpose in life, security of someone watching over them, making sure the crops don't fail, the Nile floods etc etc etc.

professorben

tampadragon said:

I'm not looking forward to this when my son is at school.
I'm not religious in the slightest, but understand some people are and that's up to them. It's when it's rammed down the throats of non believers that it annoys me!
My opinion is that no non-religious school should teach any religion to children, if their parents feel they should believe in this stuff, it's their role to put this on the child, not the schools!
If they have to teach it, then it should be taught in an un-biased way by a teacher who has no beliefs and presented as facts about the religion in full. For example about all the people killed in the crusades, in the name of god. And about the oppression to women that some religions promote as rule! Rather than teaching it as if it is the righteous path and all should believe!

I had a similar situation, where I used to work.
I tried to offer a balanced and open platform of advice, but sometimes I had to go against my beliefs and sell people a Telecaster.

menamestom

My school was fairly religious, not a faith school but they did used to tell the odd religious story and pass it off as fact.  I remember sitting there about 7 or 8 thinking, no, that's impossible.  I'm actually quote proud of my young self for rejecting it, but I do feel for kids who are that way inclined but get it from home as well as schools.  Not so much just religious families, that's up to them, but where kids want to question things but are forced to oppress those feelings. 

So to the OP, it can be frustrating, but kids do like to explore ideas for themselves and the fact at home you won't force any specific ideas on him means he'll get a balanced enough view.  It's about letting children decide for themselves.

Incidentally, our kids have been brought up vegetarian.  My lad who's 7 decided on holiday he's like to eat meat so we said go for it.  I was really happy he'd made a  decision for himself and that we'd not forced any way of thinking on him.  That said if he ever gets into God, Man City or Morris Dancing he can fuck right off......

english_bob

tampadragon said:

If they have to teach it, then it should be taught in an un-biased way by a teacher who has no beliefs and presented as facts about the religion in full. 

So should the teacher be an atheist, or an agnostic? Or someone who doesn't actually give a shit about the topic they're teaching? Why can't a religious believer be unbiased? Wouldn't a confirmed atheist be just as biased?

Facts about the religion in full? How many hours a week do you think we should devote to this? I'm sure they could at least do a bit of myth-busting, like a slightly fuller social/religious/historical context for the Crusades, or about the diversity of attitudes to women within the major world religions.

FWIW, I think children should be taught about religion in something like this way. Given that something like 84% of the world have some sort of religious belief, ignorance of all of them seems like a bad idea. 

Reverend

lloyd said:

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

english_bob said:

fields5069 said:

By all means voice your displeasure, maybe learn some lines from a Christopher Hitchens video :-) , but I doubt if the school will stop. However the best way to tackle it is to make sure your son gets a balanced view from you. Start teaching him about history, why religion came about, what some people believe etc. Stress the importance of proof.

What I always found difficult was not getting too heavy with it, not explaining that some people need religion just to get by etc.

I'd love to hear your "proof" of how religion came about.

Eh? I don't think you understood, I am sometimes unclear in my witterings I have to admit. But I think there is a very plausible argument that it came about as a means to understand the unknown.

   What didn't I understand? 

I don't really understand the relevance of the origin of religion to your point. How else would it have come about? What difference does it make?

He said "why religion came about" not "how" religion came about.

We can make fairly educated guesses for the reasons behind why humans feel the need to create religion, fear of death, having a purpose in life, security of someone watching over them, making sure the crops don't fail, the Nile floods etc etc etc.

Gobekli Tepe is believed to be the oldest religious site know to exist and  also seems to be the place that wheat was first cultivated. It is also suggested that the oldest Sumerian deities may refer to the people of Gobekli.


Which also goes to prove my point.


Toast is god. 

fields5069

english_bob said:

tampadragon said:

If they have to teach it, then it should be taught in an un-biased way by a teacher who has no beliefs and presented as facts about the religion in full. 

So should the teacher be an atheist, or an agnostic? Or someone who doesn't actually give a shit about the topic they're teaching? Why can't a religious believer be unbiased? Wouldn't a confirmed atheist be just as biased?

Facts about the religion in full? How many hours a week do you think we should devote to this? I'm sure they could at least do a bit of myth-busting, like a slightly fuller social/religious/historical context for the Crusades, or about the diversity of attitudes to women within the major world religions.

FWIW, I think children should be taught about religion in something like this way. Given that something like 84% of the world have some sort of religious belief, ignorance of all of them seems like a bad idea. 

I certainly think religion should be studied, as part of humanities. That people have a religion is fact, the religious beliefs people hold are not. I wouldn't like to see teaching devoted totally to reason and logic and fact, but to favour one subject in the great canon of unproven beliefs seems to show an unhealthy bias.