Acoustic neck thickness

TheOtherDennis

Calling @ICBM - I made a StewMac kit a couple of years ago, and I'm reasonably pleased with it, but a few weeks ago, I noticed on a thread somewhere about another guitar that you were talking about shaving something off the neck.

It's been bugging me ever since - I have an Avalon that has a lovely thin neck, but this thing is like a baseball bat.

Given that it's a bolt-on neck, and will thus come off the body without any trouble, what's the best way to trim some of the excess mahogany from the neck? Spoke shave? Plane? Sandpaper and muscle?

And how much will it affect the tone, if at all? I like how it is at the moment, so I wouldn't want to do too much to change that, if at all.

Thanks for any help.

Andyjr1515

If I can sneak in, @TheOtherDennis I would say cabinet scraper followed by sandpaper (with block).  I would start with taking some of the roundness off the haunches rather than actually reducing the centre depth.  Personally I do this with the neck on and fully strung up.  It won't affect the tone at all in my view.

ive got a bit of a thread doing this somewhere.  I'll try to find it.  In the meantime, @ICBM will probably give you the correct way

WezV

Well i am not ICBM, but I have recarved a few necks and done a couple of stew-mac acoustic kits so I hope you don't mind if I answer

The stew-mac necks are left large purposely so you can do this without too many issues.  no real need to remove the neck either as it being fat at the heel end isn't really an issue on an acoustic

the only risk is truss rod depth in the middle as the stew mac ones can be quite deep.  Removing wood from the cheeks of the neck and leaving the centre line alone is the safest way.  I would start with a cabinet scraper as a mistake with a spokeshave will be costly

WezV

there you go - right there in the instructions "Although the neck has been machined to reasonably close tolerances, plenty of extra wood has been left to accommodate different neck sizes and shapes."

ICBM

Don't ask me, I'm not a luthier really!

WezV is the man who knows .

TheOtherDennis

Cor, I really am very good at getting it wrong, aren't I? :-D I've even asked the wrong man for advice!

Thank you @WevV, I'll do what you suggest. I don't have a cabinet scraper, but I'll see if the father-out-law has one when I visit tomorrow, otherwise it's sandpaper of varying thicknesses until I'm happy. Ish.

Oh, and thanks for the other info, @Andyjr1515, too. Appreciated.

Andyjr1515

One of the bits of relevant thread is here if the link works! http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/18480/finished-oh-well-why-not#latest

I think @WezV and I are saying much the same thing.  Note that the centre is not touched - just the cheeks/haunches.

The photo shows holding the scraper with one hand only because I was holding the camera with the other . I find I get the best control holding the guitar like a back to front cello and then light full length strokes with the scraper held with a hand either side.

Andyjr1515

Decent cabinet scraper costs less than a fiver.  Useful thing to have in the toolbox even if you just throw it away when it's blunt.

Ive actually done a full body carve with scrapers only in the past!

WezV

A cabinet scraper is just a bit of tool steel.  Most useful tool you can have for lots of jobs.  I never throw them, often make them from other broken tools like saws and plane blades.  

sharpening properly is an art, and a properly sharpened scraper gives you a surface ready for finish... but you can ignore all that and just run it across a file.  You will get good, controllable  wood removal and a surface ready for final sanding.this is how I use them 95% of the time 

TheOtherDennis

Thanks for that, gents, I appreciate the info and advice.

@Andyjr1515 - am I right in thinking from the pics in your thread that you scrape the neck from the body to the head? Or doesn't it really matter so long as I'm careful?

@WezV - thanks for that. I have a set of sharpening blocks for my kitchen knives, and while I'm sure I don't use them properly, they do a very good job even in my clunky hands. But I doubt very much that I'd get a finish-ready surface with my limited skills (ie, never used one before, what are the chances?), so I'd be happy to remove some wood and then smooth it down with sandpaper.

Roland

A profile gauge is quite useful because it shows the difference in shape between the neck you like and the one you want to change.

Andyjr1515 said:

Personally I do this with the neck on and fully strung up.  It won't affect the tone at all in my view.

You can then play the guitar after every few strokes with the cabinet scraper, and feel the difference as you work. It's surprising how much difference a little sliver of wood makes

TheOtherDennis

Roland said:

A profile gauge is quite useful because it shows the difference in shape between the neck you like and the one you want to change.

Andyjr1515 said:

Personally I do this with the neck on and fully strung up.  It won't affect the tone at all in my view.

You can then play the guitar after every few strokes with the cabinet scraper, and feel the difference as you work. It's surprising how much difference a little sliver of wood makes

Two good points, there - ta for that.

Andyjr1515

TheOtherDennis said:

Thanks for that, gents, I appreciate the info and advice.

@Andyjr1515 - am I right in thinking from the pics in your thread that you scrape the neck from the body to the head? Or doesn't it really matter so long as I'm careful?

@WezV - thanks for that. I have a set of sharpening blocks for my kitchen knives, and while I'm sure I don't use them properly, they do a very good job even in my clunky hands. But I doubt very much that I'd get a finish-ready surface with my limited skills (ie, never used one before, what are the chances?), so I'd be happy to remove some wood and then smooth it down with sandpaper.

Hi, @TheOtherDennis ;
How I personally do it is, with the guitar stood upright back to front, and the headstock sticking in my chest, long light strokes from the heel to the headstock.  To be honest, you can do it anyway you are comfortable with providing you can maintain a bump and dip free cut.

Ref the sharpening of a scraper, for one neck you shouldn't need to.  The scrapers you buy from new will almost always have a burr on the appropriate edges.  It's worth looking up on the web if you've never used one.  Basically it is a flat piece of steel where a very small burr has been deliberately put onto the edges.  This acts as a mini plane taking very thin shavings off.

TheOtherDennis

Thanks for the tips, Andy.

I've actually tried to find them before now, because the acoustic making book I have by Jonathon Kinkead recommends their use for getting edges and binding level with the top and sides, but whenever I've looked for a scraper, everyone I've asked (in shops, that is) has gone "Erm..."

Now I know what they are, I can hopefully learn how to use one properly and smooth out the rougher edges on the two acoustics I've already done. I'll probably have to sand the whole guitar down and refinish it, too, but I don't suppose that's too much of a bad thing, really.

WezV

watch this vid for the easiest way to sharpen a scraper - as mentioned above this won't give a surface ready for finish, but gets close

TheOtherDennis

Thanks for that, @WezV.

Appreciate all the info and help, gents.

WezV

i would say these are worth their weight in gold....  they come with an excellent burr so are a good lesson in what really make a scraper great
http://www.axminster.co.uk/lie-nielsen-cabinet-scraper-set-202211

I keep these ones sharpened properly.

TheOtherDennis

Glad you recommended those, they were the very ones I was looking at - there's an Axminster store 20 minutes from me, I'd already planned to pop over there tomorrow (it's closed today).

olafgarten

Also, I would do this very slowly, draw some lines with a sharpie where you are going to scrape, then continue until you have got through the marker, after this, check the neck in your hand.

WezV

olafgarten said:

Also, I would do this very slowly, draw some lines with a sharpie where you are going to scrape, then continue until you have got through the marker, after this, check the neck in your hand.

That's actually what stewmac recommend in the kit instructions, although with a pencil.  It's a bit slow for me... but it is relatively safe