Coding Advice

TheBlueWolf

I've been considering having a crack at coding. I'm tinkering with a website plus I'm thinking about maybe developing an app too. Plus I'm considering a possible career in the programming sector.

I remember Holn's thread and that getting involved in GitHub is helpful but I'm buggered if I can remember what languages I need to be semi fluent in, so which ones should I be looking at?

ATM I can get by in HTML but I'm pretty lost otherwise.

Help appreciated etc

monquixote

If you are considering web stuff then have a look at nodejs and express as it's getting really big at the moment and you can learn one language for browser and server.

TheBlueWolf

It'll mostly be web stuff for now, I'll ask Google about those two.

randella

JavaScript is a staple of the web, have a look at the jQuery framework too - it's pretty ubiquitous these days. It's basically a load of JavaScript wrappers.

As for the server side, I'll get shot for saying this but learn Microsoft .NET (C#) and SQL Server and you'll never be out of work

Axe_meister

The only problem with using windows server side programming is the investment for a proper home lab if you want to learn how to deploy to a web server.
With Linux based languages any old PC can be used and you don't need to pay for the OS or DB.

randella

It's possible to get free versions of a Visual Studio IDE ('Community' I think it's called now), SQL Server Express costs nothing either. If you've got a Windows machine (literally *any* Windows box will do) it's a piece of cake to bang IIS on there and you're away. 

dafuzz

iirc freecodecamp.com is pretty good

TheBlueWolf

Nice one dudes!

I'm in the process of piecing together a rudimentary computer set up so I'll have a look at Linux/Visual Studio

DiscoStu

I'm considering learning to code too as it seems a way to get a career at my age.

monquixote

randella said:

JavaScript is a staple of the web, have a look at the jQuery framework too - it's pretty ubiquitous these days. It's basically a load of JavaScript wrappers.

As for the server side, I'll get shot for saying this but learn Microsoft .NET (C#) and SQL Server and you'll never be out of work

As a beginner I'd suggest avoiding JQuery.
10 years ago it used to be essential to get anything done, but with modern browsers and Javascript 6 you can write great code straight out of the box. The risk with learning JQuery is that you learn the library and not the language. 

C# is a great language and Visual Studio is a brilliant IDE, but if you are learning to get a job then I'd avoid it as most Microsoft shops are going to be looking for people with a CS degree.

Axe_meister

How about starting with a templates online web building site such as square space. You could build fancy looking sites quite quickly with online shops and help out a few small businesses and start earning a little money fairly quickly. You can then extend the functionality with things like java script.
At the same time learn about the back-end side of things.
I'm teaching myself to code to get around the frustration of company tools built in bloody excel, rewriting them as proper web based tools that produce a nice output and I can query at hearts content.

TheBlueWolf

@Axe_meister that's what I currently do with my site; I'm good with back-end stuff as long as there's a decent template or three. Hopefully I can earn a small but reasonable amount while I get to grips with the coding side.

mellowsun

Alternatively skip all the web stuff and get into machine learning and data science (coursera do some good courses). Learn python and some of the standard deep learning libraries (theano, tensorflow, torch) or Java with deeplearning4j. You'll need some maths though - linear algebra, probability theory/stats and matrices - but this is mostly 1st year AS level stuff.

There's huge demand for these skills and 6 figure salaries on offer. Many people have the maths but few have the maths and the programming chops.

randella

monquixote said:

C# is a great language and Visual Studio is a brilliant IDE, but if you are learning to get a job then I'd avoid it as most Microsoft shops are going to be looking for people with a CS degree.

Respectfully disagree with that last statement - either that, or I did a CompSci without realising it.

There are C# jobs in places other than software houses (thank Christ, I can't stomach the places - horses/courses I guess) and, whilst they'll usually want *a* degree (which I have), I've never found the fact it wasn't a CS to be a problem in 20 years and several jobs, some with household names. 

PolarityMan

First read this

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

randella

PolarityMan said:

First read this

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

It's a funny read that.

I feel you can sum up programming by saying that the trouble with programming is other programmers. One place I worked, I asked a guy "do you know how this method works?"  He said "yes" and carried on working. I should have known better than to try social interaction with someone who wore a bumbag all day every day. 

There seems to be a raft of people here wanting to get into it, and I've no idea why.

monquixote

randella said:

monquixote said:

C# is a great language and Visual Studio is a brilliant IDE, but if you are learning to get a job then I'd avoid it as most Microsoft shops are going to be looking for people with a CS degree.

Respectfully disagree with that last statement - either that, or I did a CompSci without realising it.

There are C# jobs in places other than software houses (thank Christ, I can't stomach the places - horses/courses I guess) and, whilst they'll usually want *a* degree (which I have), I've never found the fact it wasn't a CS to be a problem in 20 years and several jobs, some with household names. 

I should have been more specific (and when I say "Microsoft shop" I mean a place where everything has to be Microsoft by order of the IT department)

Essentially if you are in your early 20s and have a technical degree and and a little bit of coding experience there is a reasonable chance that you will get offered a grad coders job somewhere. 

My assumption is that the people writing the recent threads are probably in their 30s or 40s and do not have a technical degree so the chance of them being offered anything writing C# or Java at an established company is extremely low. 

The only two roads into coding I could imagine being successful are:

1. Doing some freelance web design and moving further into proper web development until you have a portfolio of sites you can use to make up for your lack of qualifications.

2. Getting a job as a software tester and getting into automation using Python or Selenium etc. 

There is an option 3 which is build some kind of tool to automate an aspect of your existing job, but that requires you working for the right kind of company with the right kind of boss and I'm assuming if it was an option they would be doing it already.

thomasross20

I do C, python, TCL, ocean/skill etc plus MATLAB and LabVIEW as part of work. Much prefer the mainstay of my job - circuit design (more hardware related) - coding never floated my boat. Loads of people think they can jump into these sort of things but to do them at a professional level, I think it's a different thing. Out of work, I've had enough and just want to play guitar. I've never really understood folk wanting to do this in their spare time.

randella

@monquixote - yep, get you. Think you're spot-on with that. 

monquixote

Writing software is much more like a craft than a profession IMO. 

If you put it in terms of working with wood then it doesn't take very long to learn how to saw a plank in half and you might find a few people who will pay you to do so, but don't expect to spend a couple of weekends in your garage with a chisel and then get a job as a master joiner building chippendale furniture.

You need to be looking at putting a 1000 hours into coding to get any good at it an 10,000 hours to become an expert. It's entirely doable, but you need to love it because it's a lot of work.

webrthomson

randella said:

PolarityMan said:

First read this

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

It's a funny read that.

I feel you can sum up programming by saying that the trouble with programming is other programmers. One place I worked, I asked a guy "do you know how this method works?"  He said "yes" and carried on working. I should have known better than to try social interaction with someone who wore a bumbag all day every day. 

There seems to be a raft of people here wanting to get into it, and I've no idea why.

I've been a developer for about 20 years and this about sums up my experience too

I'm mostly .Net (C# and VB.net), T-SQL and some web stuff these days.

To get started I'd get to grips with HTML5, Javascript (JQuery is useful to know) and CSS.

If you are thinking about corporate development then look at either C# or Java. In terms of databases Microsoft SQL Server is pretty easy to get to grips with and T-SQL is both ANSI-92 compatible and well documented on MS books online. SQL server express is free and for learning purposes there is no real difference between it and the bigger versions.

It's probably worth knowing a bit about the software development life cycle and an awareness of agile development methodologies - scrum is probably the most banded about (and worst implemented IMHO:))

Best of luck!