Anyone had any experience with Creatine?

Nabokovs_Monkey

Talking to someone at climbing who had been taking creatine for 2 weeks and was starting to see some results with it. It seems well suited to bouldering as it involves short periods of intense exertion. 

Anyone used it. What results did you see and what were you using it for? Did you have any side-effects?

Evilmags

Brother used it when he playe rugby. Got his bench press over 160kgs on a single lift and 140 on 8 reps. He went bald though and I've got all my hair. 

octatonic

What are you trying to achieve and where are you at now?

To use a couple of examples at either end of the spectrum.
If you are an elite athlete trying to get a few % improvement then there is evidence it can help if all the other pieces are in place.
If you are and overweight and inactive person trying to get fit then don't waste your money.

In reality most people will be somewhere in between- it all depends on what you are trying to do- increase strength, endurance or physical appearance-? Well there is no definitive answer to give.

On hair loss- it can hasten male pattern baldness- this is fairly well understood.
Do you have MPB in the family?

Gassage

Creatine works by drawing water from body tissue into muscle.

Overuse can cause real arthritic aches, stomach cramps etc

It's also useless unless you've already got a core level of good fitness; its key use is allow you to train harder/loger by drawing that water (and amino acids) into the muscle tissue to prevent (or delay) lactic acidosis. The aminos help aid the muscle growth caused by the excercise stimulation.

If starting, you'll find guidelines on what is called a 'low dose protocol'. This will prevent side effects, which occur mostly in the early stages. It can give you gut cramps and the shits but this is more dehydration as water goes into muscle. You'll also put a bit of weight on in the early stages- maybe 1/2 a stone tops.

At Moseley and Headingley in the 80/90's we were just starting to use it. A lot of players found it degrading in terms of recovery times 'in season' but best used out of season for pre-season conditioning.

siraxeman

been on creatine for about 2yrs - 1 small scoop (about a teaspoons worth) in my porridge every morning...with a scoop of protein powder as well. It works...but its NOTHING like as effective as steroids, which I don't use and never will. Evilmags brother balding has ZERO to do with creatine use. It is naturally found in meat but you'd have to eat an awful lot of it to get a scoops worth of it. It just dpes as stated above - draws more water into the muscle and this also means more glycogen so allows for a bit more strength and endurance on short heavy workouts. It does nothing for long distance/time stuff. Its widely used by athletes as it is legal and not a drug or a banned substance.

Gassage

siraxeman said:

been on creatine for about 2yrs - 1 small scoop (about a teaspoons worth) in my porridge every morning...with a scoop of protein powder as well. It works...but its NOTHING like as effective as steroids, which I don't use and never will. Evilmags brother balding has ZERO to do with creatine use. It is naturally found in meat but you'd have to eat an awful lot of it to get a scoops worth of it. It just dpes as stated above - draws more water into the muscle and this also means more glycogen so allows for a bit more strength and endurance on short heavy workouts. It does nothing for long distance/time stuff. Its widely used by athletes as it is legal and not a drug or a banned substance.

I can tell you some horrors in rugby. It kinda stopped a bit in 93 when we got mandatory random testing.

The deal was, May, stop training and eat.
End of June stand on scales and realise you're 10kgs heavier.
June- Creatine for anarobic training; Ephidrene/Caffine/Asprin Stacks for fat loss. (the best fat stripper ever, and a quick way to a heart attack)
July- Creatine and muscle build via Clenbuterol- a steroid used for asthma but amazing for muscle bulk.
August- stop so your system could hit the magic 30 days clean before first game c. 1st Sept.

And, it still goes on, I assure you.

There's a certain very recent (last 12 months or so) England back rower that habitually used to call me after the last game of season to blag some spliff !!!

Mkjackary

Yup been using it for a month or so. As said it draws water to your muscles, as a result you can gain a bit of weight and get cramps, the way to combat cramps is to drink more water, asking as you do that, afaik there is no proof it will cause any bad effects.

It doesn't make you stronger, it just means you can generally do more reps that you would have been able to before, as you can do more reps, you do more work, gain more muscle.

It helps you gain muscle, but it won't do shit unless you afe working out.

I use the sportsfuel creatine as it's cheap as tits.

Nabokovs_Monkey

Thanks for the responses. To answer a few questions, I've been indoor bouldering for a year now, 3 times a week. My body is starting to become conditioned to the rigours of climbing. I climb for fun, for the discipline, for the psychological experience and a little bit because I like the way it is changing the shape of my body. Al these things combined mean I am committed to it and am interested in nutrition and supplements. However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

I also have been doing about 6 - 8 hours of hot yoga a week for 6 months. I'm in the best physical shape of my life except cardio which is something I aim to work on and for me something that I can improve quite easily as I have a runners build. 

Nunogilberto

It's how the world was made wasn't it, the Creatine?









Ah shit, sorry.

octatonic

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

Fish oil: mostly a waste of time, or at least the benefits are overstates. Eat oily fish, supplements are probably not worth the expense. https://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/07/19/something-fishy-about-omega-3-supplements/

Greens and natural proteins: If you mean green vegetables and protein from whole food sources- excellent.

Hootsmon

they are great with tomato soup

Mkjackary

octatonic said:

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

Fish oil: mostly a waste of time, or at least the benefits are overstated.

Snake oil too.

Hertz32

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

Thanks for the responses. To answer a few questions, I've been indoor bouldering for a year now, 3 times a week. My body is starting to become conditioned to the rigours of climbing. I climb for fun, for the discipline, for the psychological experience and a little bit because I like the way it is changing the shape of my body. Al these things combined mean I am committed to it and am interested in nutrition and supplements. However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

I also have been doing about 6 - 8 hours of hot yoga a week for 6 months. I'm in the best physical shape of my life except cardio which is something I aim to work on and for me something that I can improve quite easily as I have a runners build. 

You sound an awful lot better than I! Roughly what grade do you climb? 
You sound as if you've hit the wall of diminishing returns and its probably either your technique holding you back, or not enough finger strength. 

Either way, try the food supplements. But dedicate some time to fingerboarding and using campus racks. 

menamestom

Creatine gave me muscle cramps.   I'd wake up in the night and need to run a round the house.  I did drink plenty of water but it didn't make much difference. I wouldn't use it for climbing because it's likely to cause cramps when you really don't need them.  But it's cheap and safe so trying it won't do any harm.  

Nabokovs_Monkey

Hertz32 said:

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

Thanks for the responses. To answer a few questions, I've been indoor bouldering for a year now, 3 times a week. My body is starting to become conditioned to the rigours of climbing. I climb for fun, for the discipline, for the psychological experience and a little bit because I like the way it is changing the shape of my body. Al these things combined mean I am committed to it and am interested in nutrition and supplements. However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

I also have been doing about 6 - 8 hours of hot yoga a week for 6 months. I'm in the best physical shape of my life except cardio which is something I aim to work on and for me something that I can improve quite easily as I have a runners build. 

You sound an awful lot better than I! Roughly what grade do you climb? 
You sound as if you've hit the wall of diminishing returns and its probably either your technique holding you back, or not enough finger strength. 

Either way, try the food supplements. But dedicate some time to fingerboarding and using campus racks. 

Im around the 6b mark, working on a 6c+ at the moment and looking to crack it in the next few climbs. Certainly Ive seen grade progress slow down considerably, but dont feel ive hit a wall. Finger strength is good, tendon strength is the issue in the wrists for certain moves (2 finger pockets feel like just a bit too much strain on the wrists at the moment. No quick fix for that, just repetition.) My footwork is shit, I dont trust my legs and feet on smaller holds so have been doing some squats for that. 

I'm not good at training, I prefer to get better through doing so fingerboarding I probably wont do. I'll do a lot of climbs in a 3 hour session so I can avoid the tedium of training. 

Nabokovs_Monkey

octatonic said:

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

Fish oil: mostly a waste of time, or at least the benefits are overstates. Eat oily fish, supplements are probably not worth the expense. https://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/07/19/something-fishy-about-omega-3-supplements/

Greens and natural proteins: If you mean green vegetables and protein from whole food sources- excellent.

Good to know. Yes I prefer to get as much of everything from my normal diet so may introduce a bit of fish. Have been dating a vegan for 6 months and recently split up so I'm back on meat and I think I'm someone who really struggles to be at maximum performance without it.

Ive been using this site to look at effects of supplements:

http://examine.com/supplements/fish-oil/

octatonic

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

octatonic said:

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

Fish oil: mostly a waste of time, or at least the benefits are overstates. Eat oily fish, supplements are probably not worth the expense. https://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/07/19/something-fishy-about-omega-3-supplements/

Greens and natural proteins: If you mean green vegetables and protein from whole food sources- excellent.

Good to know. Yes I prefer to get as much of everything from my normal diet so may introduce a bit of fish. Have been dating a vegan for 6 months and recently split up so I'm back on meat and I think I'm someone who really struggles to be at maximum performance without it.

Vegan or lazy vegan?
Many vegan people eat a nutritionally poor diet, just one that is lacking in animal products.
They overload on sugar oil & salt though.

Hertz32

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

Hertz32 said:

Nabokovs_Monkey said:

Thanks for the responses. To answer a few questions, I've been indoor bouldering for a year now, 3 times a week. My body is starting to become conditioned to the rigours of climbing. I climb for fun, for the discipline, for the psychological experience and a little bit because I like the way it is changing the shape of my body. Al these things combined mean I am committed to it and am interested in nutrition and supplements. However, isolated things like creatine I find a bit weird and wary of. I am more interested in more natural supplementation such as fish oils, greens and natural proteins.

I also have been doing about 6 - 8 hours of hot yoga a week for 6 months. I'm in the best physical shape of my life except cardio which is something I aim to work on and for me something that I can improve quite easily as I have a runners build. 

You sound an awful lot better than I! Roughly what grade do you climb? 
You sound as if you've hit the wall of diminishing returns and its probably either your technique holding you back, or not enough finger strength. 

Either way, try the food supplements. But dedicate some time to fingerboarding and using campus racks. 

Im around the 6b mark, working on a 6c+ at the moment and looking to crack it in the next few climbs. Certainly Ive seen grade progress slow down considerably, but dont feel ive hit a wall. Finger strength is good, tendon strength is the issue in the wrists for certain moves (2 finger pockets feel like just a bit too much strain on the wrists at the moment. No quick fix for that, just repetition.) My footwork is shit, I dont trust my legs and feet on smaller holds so have been doing some squats for that. 

I'm not good at training, I prefer to get better through doing so fingerboarding I probably wont do. I'll do a lot of climbs in a 3 hour session so I can avoid the tedium of training. 

Font grades, yeah? So 6b/6c(+)... Thats around V4/5, right? If you can tell me your footwork is shit without thinking about it I 100% guarantee you'll see more of an improvement in trusting your footwork than you will using sports supplements.
Shoe choice and size is a big part in confidence, and it was around your level I got a decent set. What shoes are you wearing, still your first set?  

If you can, make the trip to Bristol to go and see bananafingers. As soon as I got my first set of downturned bouldering shoes I leapt up the confidence ladder. Go to the biggest climbing shop you can find, and try on everything. I suit Scarpa, so whilst my first pair of shoes were some mega flat La Sportiva Mythos's, I have since owned Scarpa Vapor V's, Scarpa Mago's and my personal favorite are my Scarpa Instinct VS's. 

Of course if you have decent shoes already then just see if you can't get some coaching, they show you how to work correct footwork into your beta in the first place and how to practice it. As well as giving you the ability to ask someone who knows your climbing and ability better than we do, whether they would advise you to start creatine. They can see whether having any more muscle mass would actually work to the benefit of your technique. (And putting on 1/2 a stone in water weight will not help climbing at all!) 

Hertz32

http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/scarpa-mago-p-3957.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-typhoon-p-969.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/evolv-shaman-p-1129.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-sigwa-p-1452.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/evolv-shaman-p-3876.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/five-ten-quantum-p-966.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/fiveten-dragon-p-36.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/la-sportiva-futura-p-1659.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/la-sportiva-solution-p-47.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/la-sportiva-skwama-p-4084.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/scarpa-instinct-vs-p-1784.html
http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/scarpa-vapour-p-1678.html


There are a few shoes that jump to my mind as decent bouldering shoes. If you lack confidence a stiffer shoe with more downturn is a better idea if they suit you. (The stiffness helps you feel supported, the downturn adds tension when you stand on the toe) 
Alternatively, a softer shoe would build foot strength and help your climbing long term. 

Personally, I loved the Five Ten quantum/Instinct Lace as a stiff shoe. The Instinct VS as a middle ground and the La Sportiva Futura as a soft shoe. 

Banana fingers should let you pick a couple sizes and send back the ones that don't fit if you ask them nicely. But do ask them for sizing advice!!! 

musteatbrain

You won't be much stronger, but you will be a few pounds heavier with water. Might outweigh the benefits for a climber.

it's cheap to try though and pretty safe.

thomasross20

I'm sure I'm balding for five other reasons....







Joking lol!!!