Proper cook books

Axe_meister

Any recommendations?
not your average home cook book, but a book that takes you through the basics of proper fine dining.
i.e tells you you the difference between a Jus a , gravy and a sauce.
How to make pearls/caviar balls.
The kind of techniques you see on master chef

octatonic

Get this: "The Escoffier Cookbook: Guide to the Fine Art of French Cuisine".

and then get this: "Larousse Gastronomique".

Neither are easy to read but they are classic and comprehensive.

Kalimna

I would add Blumenthals' Fat Duck Cookbook. Contents beyond most home cooks (myself included) ability/equipment but a phenomenal source of inspiration.

cheers,
adam

oaf

Larousse has already been mentioned. If you're interested in sous vide then consider Modernist Cuisine at Home. If you'd like to look to the East then Momofuku (Chang) is interesting. Proper fine dining comes in many forms!

Axe_meister

Are there any books that concentrate on the basic techniques which can then be adapted I.e a chefs manual.

octatonic

Axe_meister said:

Are there any books that concentrate on the basic techniques which can then be adapted I.e a chefs manual.

The Escoffier Cookbook does this.
Have a look here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Escoffier-Cookbook-Guide-French-Cuisine/dp/0517506629

and go to Look Inside.

It is 'basic technique' stuff, but basic technique for fine dining- so pretty complex.
For example- there are pages and pages of sauces- called 'the small compound sauces'.
Then in the bigger recipes it doesn't restate these- it might say 'make a chasseur sauce' as part of a fine dining dish and you then go back to the recipe for the white, or if you've done it lots of times you will have memorised it.

This is the same with making stocks- there are dozens of recipes just for stocks.
Or veloutes.
Or ... etc.

It isn't a 'beginners guide to fine dining' but I've never found anything that does that really.

cruxiform

I'm a decent cook and I have to ask why fine dining? You're filling people's stomachs and keeping them happy. I've cooked for 12 people, 3 courses and enjoyed the praise when they all enjoyed it. All presented well and fresh ingredients. I've found picking the right booze is usually more important. In my opinion, anybody who cooks in that manner is wasting time and money. Oh, and it's unbelievably pretentious. 

mgaw

octatonic said:

Get this: "The Escoffier Cookbook: Guide to the Fine Art of French Cuisine".

and then get this: "Larousse Gastronomique".

Neither are easy to read but they are classic and comprehensive.

i wouldnt really recommend these....the fundamentals of fine dining is a big topic, personally i think most modern cook books by a named fine dining chef should cover the basics and then some of the fancy footwork....i have about 500 books from my days in the Kitchen none of which i use now....one which stands out is an Alan Ducasse book which is extremely comprehensive..modern...and the recipes are of the highest order unlike the Larousse which i feel are fairly run of the mill...Heston B book is very nice to look at..but unless your prepared to spend an incredible amount of time and money on kit then i would swerve it.

Unless you are an experienced cook i would recommend concentrating on learning the basics..i.e. how to make a great stock or a great Jus as they say  literally translated as Juice and refers to the meat juices as opposed to a reduction of stock with aromatics veg and alcohol (traditional Sauce)

as an example a Ducasse technique for Jus/Sauce/gravy is thus

colour of meat chunks...with veg mirepoix..(evenly chopped) then Deglaze with water, say enough to come up to a third of the height of the 2" chunks of lets say Lamb shoulder....reduce until it has coated the meat and nearly evaporated...repeat this twice more....then add enough water to make it a sauce consistency and let it tick over until you have a mouthful of the most exquisite sauce/jus/gravy....leave to infuse for say an hour then pass through a fine Chinois  which is a proffesional sieve squeezing hard on the meat etc to extract EVERY last drop...low yield high cost, but fuck me what a flavour...do this right i doubt very much you will taste or make a better base jus...

this can be repeated with any meat important points to note....meat chunks from a flavoursome cut....same size...hot pan good caramelization..apart from that its plain sailing hard herbs in early AND before serving the jus/sauce/gravy stir with a little branch of the same i.e. thyme  which you have rubbed to release the oils first..

lots of little steps done with great care with well sourced ingredients is the LAW...once yopu have grasped that then consider moving on to the fancy footwork

octatonic

cruxiform said:

I'm a decent cook and I have to ask why fine dining? You're filling people's stomachs and keeping them happy. I've cooked for 12 people, 3 courses and enjoyed the praise when they all enjoyed it. All presented well and fresh ingredients. I've found picking the right booze is usually more important. In my opinion, anybody who cooks in that manner is wasting time and money. Oh, and it's unbelievably pretentious. 

That is, like, just your opinion, man.  

I don't think it is at all pretentious.
Some of the best meals I've had have been degustation menus.
It can show technique and creativity on a level that home cooking simply doesn't.

To draw a musical analogy, some people like blues music and don't have any time for classical.
That doesn't mean that all people who like classical music are pretentious- it just isn't your thing, which is fine.
To slate everyone who is interested in classical music is just narrow-minded.

One question though- have you ever been to a fine dining restaurant?
This has come up before and the person who objected most strenuously admitted they had never been.
I suspect that it is more to do with people feeling out of place in this environment, when actually the sort of people who go are just like you or I.
You do sometimes get your prissy pretentious types in these restaurants but imho they are in the minority.

As to why learn it as a home cook- do you like steak?
If so, how do you cook it?
I mostly pan fry mine but if I can be bothered I use a sous vide.
It takes a lot of time, you vacuum pack the meat, slowly cook it at 53 degrees for 2 hours and the flash it off in the pan.
It is easily the best steak I've ever cooked- it tastes amazing.
I don't do it all the time as it takes ages but worth doing.
It is just a technique- you use it or not- as you want to.

mgaw

cruxiform said:

I'm a decent cook and I have to ask why fine dining? You're filling people's stomachs and keeping them happy. I've cooked for 12 people, 3 courses and enjoyed the praise when they all enjoyed it. All presented well and fresh ingredients. I've found picking the right booze is usually more important. In my opinion, anybody who cooks in that manner is wasting time and money. Oh, and it's unbelievably pretentious. 

perhaps  but thats saying more about your ideas than the others....i did the whole kitchen thing for say 20 years with Ramsay Marco, Roux amongst others and i feel it has got a bit silly these days to some degree....but its a business and if people like that they come back....whether you can cook obviously is your opinion but in my wide experience most of those who sound like you tend not to really know that much about the finer points:)...not a criticism but its bricklaying to sculpture in a way...one is functional the other bit arty but hey bottom line is if you enjoy it the people you feed enjoy then that is the whole point of cooking 

cruxiform

octatonic said:

One question though- have you ever been to a fine dining restaurant?

I have on numerous occasions and I have enjoyed the experience. I've taken from that and also from TV progs, recipe books etc. I love creating dishes and being in the kitchen. I also take pride in my skills and have never had a complaint. My ex-wife and I used to host lots of dinner parties and my cooking was the reason why people came back. Perhaps my guests didn't appreciate the finer elements of preparation of their meals? I don't know. All I know is when I host a dinner party, my friends go home happy. 

octatonic

My dishes fail from time to time, because I try stuff that is new to me and sometimes takes several goes to get right.

I've never burned down a kitchen, but sometimes things have gone quite wrong, imho that goes with the territory.
@mgaw do you agree?

capo4th

Quality ingredients simple food always works well. I have been to the Fat Duck and many other Michellin starred restaurants it's all very nice, tastes and looks amazing but 8 times out of 10 a good ribeye fat chips and veg with a peppercorn sauce hits the spot every time.

for the 10/10 dining experience it has to be my favourite curry house and a few Cobras.
http://www.tamasha.co.uk/ ;

octatonic

I think it is a nice but occasional treat.
We might go 2-3 times a year and it is something to look forward to.

You wouldn't want to eat like that every day.
We mostly eat normal stuff, stir fry, tagines, stews but every so often I'll attempt something more ambitious. I'm kinda surprised anyone would think this is remarkable.

mgaw

absolutely....the man who never made a mistake is the man who never made anything worthwhile  ...@octatonic

for me its a process about flavour and texture...the chances of trying something different and nailing it are very remote unless you can REALLY cook and even then its unlikely....

heres how it works in Chef land...a new dish or idea is a pretty torturous process as every item is considered and rehearsed and most importantly tasted and eaten as a whole dish....that i cant stress enough.

cook the new dish/idea/technique sit down and eat it   make notes consider its failings ans strengths then you are off and running rinse and repeat..

if you think about trying to cook something truly excellent there is so much to consider..the ingredients...the sourcing of ingredients...the characteristics they have...the best cooking method to apply to them...how they interact with each other...its endless i.e. at what size/age is an ingredient at its best for the dish and on and on we go

all about trial and error and being honest with yourself whilst trusting your judgement.

mgaw

cruxiform said:

octatonic said:

One question though- have you ever been to a fine dining restaurant?

I have on numerous occasions and I have enjoyed the experience. I've taken from that and also from TV progs, recipe books etc. I love creating dishes and being in the kitchen. I also take pride in my skills and have never had a complaint. My ex-wife and I used to host lots of dinner parties and my cooking was the reason why people came back. Perhaps my guests didn't appreciate the finer elements of preparation of their meals? I don't know. All I know is when I host a dinner party, my friends go home happy. 

and that is it in a nutshell really..if you are proud of what you cook and your friends are happy then bingo....jobs a good 'un
doesn't mean to say your that good though

cruxiform

mgaw said:

cruxiform said:

octatonic said:

One question though- have you ever been to a fine dining restaurant?

I have on numerous occasions and I have enjoyed the experience. I've taken from that and also from TV progs, recipe books etc. I love creating dishes and being in the kitchen. I also take pride in my skills and have never had a complaint. My ex-wife and I used to host lots of dinner parties and my cooking was the reason why people came back. Perhaps my guests didn't appreciate the finer elements of preparation of their meals? I don't know. All I know is when I host a dinner party, my friends go home happy. 

and that is it in a nutshell really..if you are proud of what you cook and your friends are happy then bingo....jobs a good 'un
doesn't mean to say your that good though

True. I'm nowhere near as good as I'd like to be but I enjoy cooking for others. 

ToneControl

do you want to cook or eat?
just modern british style or what?

Axe_meister

I love both  cooking And eating. I just to take both to another level. I like to think I'm a good home cook, everything we eat is made from scratch (lots of allergies in my family). But when you watch something like master chef Australia. People take a Chef technique and apply to whatever ingredient they are given and come up with something that not only tastes great but looks great.

Gagaryn

Axe_meister said:

Are there any books that concentrate on the basic techniques which can then be adapted I.e a chefs manual.

I've got something at home which is pretty much exactly this. I read it years ago and learned loads - I'll have a look when I get home and see what it is called.

Fatfingers

Axe_meister said:

i.e tells you you the difference between a Jus a , gravy and a sauce.

Jus - West London
Gravy - West Midlands
Sauce - West of Watford