Royal Mail screw up..

hassleham

I sold a Roland space echo on eBay last week. I posted it out on 18/10 using Royal Mail 2nd class signed for. (Yes I know that 2nd class doesn't cover more valuable items, but that's what I've used for years without any issues).

Around 4 days after postage I was worried because the tracking number wasn't working and the buyer also contacted me about this on the same day. I rang Royal Mail and they said that their tracking system was having some difficulties but I should wait to see if the item is delivered by the 2nd November. 

I measaged the buyer explaining the situation and telling him that the pedal should arrive in the next few days. 

A few few days later now and the pedal hasn't been delivered, although the tracking number is currently working. The buyer has now requested a refund on eBay saying that the parcel hasn't arrived, but I can't do anything until the 2nd November which is the latest that it could arrive. 
Im not really sure what to do now as it's looking like I will have to refund the seller and claim £20 back from Royal Mail, losing around £120 myself..

I'm aware that the buyer could be taking advantage of the broken tracking system by claiming that the item hasn't arrived.
I'm unsure about the likelyhood of having the pedal returned to me by Royal Mail if perhaps it has lost it's address label in transit..
Any wise input would be appreciated as I've not had anything like this happen before!

paul_c2

I think if the buyer has agreed to 2nd class post as the delivery method, they're obliged to wait for the full delivery time it might be delivered in, until they can get a refund. So, you don't need to refund them until 2nd Nov (assuming its not arrived by then). If its not arrived, then make a claim against RM for its non-delivery, unsure if you put the value of the item or if its restricted to eg £40 though, but that's the chance you take if you don't fully insure it etc

hassleham

Thanks Paul, that's what I was thinking. I will wait till the 2nd before issuing the refund. 

It really sucks that out of all the pedals I have posted to people in the last year or so, it's the most valuable one that gets lost..

paul_c2

Not 100% sure (worth checking or another member confirming) but I think if the sale doesn't go through on eBay, eg the pedal never arrived so it was refunded instead, the buyer won't have an option to leave feedback, so you can't get negative feedback for the delay. Worth checking though. There's also plenty of scams possible where an item is delivered, but the buyer/fraudster circumvents the tracking process or signing for it etc and is then later able to claim a refund.

Did you include a return address on the parcel or within the packaging? After all, not much stuff actually gets genuinely lost in the postal system, compared to the number of items which isn't delivered (on time) - RM simply don't have the space to keep lost stuff, and (for them) delivery is cheap, so they'd aim to send it back to the sender in most cases if its not delivered.

marcus449

I always find it odd when the buyer pushes for a refund like this, especially as I'm guessing you have great feedback on eBay, and the delivery due date has not expired. 

I sent via 2nd class signed, tracking didn't seem to work and the buyer said it didn't arrive even though the arrival due date still wasn't up. The buyer pushed for a refund, I had to oblige as I really could be asked with have back and forths with the eBay case team and ended up £30 out of pocket (admittedly a lot less than you). 

The nail in the coffin was when I saw the buyer had put up the item for sale on his account!!! I contacted a rep and he was very sympathetic and said it was all in my favour but I'd have to open up a full case for review.

I think if it had been for more I would have fought it as the rep said I had a good case if I could prove postage etc. Same with Royal Mail, they messed up and the lady at the counter said to just file a case online.

gavin_axecaster

^ Delivery date according to ebay has definitely passed - 2nd Class delivery estimate with ebay is 3 days + your handling time. Royal Mail's timeline for considering something lost is a different matter - 10 working days after due date (3 working days after posting for 2nd Class).
If the buyer has opened a case for Item Not Received the seller will have a grace period before a refund is forced - hopefully the package turns up by then and the online delivery confirmation is updated.
If not ebay will force a refund when the deadline passes and you will be out of luck and pocket and may receive a strike against your account if you let the case time-out. You may not even be able to claim the £20 compensation from Royal Mail - they use every trick in the book to get out of paying, from insisting on the recipient confirming it was not received (serial scammers often do not reply) to denying a claim as the item was under-insured.
By the way, "Signed For" is not a tracked service as the only updates are when it is accepted into the system and when it is delivered.

hassleham

@paul_c2 ;
Yes, I did put a return address on the package so I can only hope it will turn back up at my house in the next week weeks.. Not getting my hopes up though!

hassleham

@marcus449 ;

What an idiot! I think I would've opened a case just out of principal. 

hassleham

Quick update!

Thankfully the pedal has shown up! Unbelievably it was posted into a bin outside the guys house without the postman bothering to get a signature or even leave a note through the letterbox. Somehow the guy found it a week later and luckily was honest enough to let me know it had arrived, (as there is still no signature on the delivery details).

ICBM

hassleham said:

Quick update!

Thankfully the pedal has shown up! Unbelievably it was posted into a bin outside the guys house without the postman bothering to get a signature or even leave a note through the letterbox. Somehow the guy found it a week later and luckily was honest enough to let me know it had arrived, (as there is still no signature on the delivery details).

Brilliant!

I'd almost be inclined to claim anyway, given the RM have clearly contravened their own terms and conditions and now can't prove they did deliver it.

Except that it won't be worth the enormous amount of hassle they will put you through before finally denying the claim anyway...

Vaiai

I had a 3 week drama waiting on my FX8 after I had sent my Kotzen Tele to @Aidanspaghetti - the only reason I felt sure he was legit was because we both had feedback on here and I knew he had bought and sold recently.
Everyone I told the saga to thought I had been ripped off and there's no denying it could have looked like that! Shows it's better to sell/buy here and keep an eye on trader feedback! Thanks Fretboard
Luckily - he has the guitar and loves it and I am finally gigging a multiFX after trying pretty much everything else out there over the last few years.

Aidanspaghetti

Was a harrowing time alright @Vaiai Came good in the end though - the threat of legal involvement to the couriers resulted in phone calls and ensuing delivery! I was lucky that Vaiai has patience and a pleasent demeanour
A gent ot deal with btw for all forum folk

olafgarten

ICBM said:

hassleham said:

Quick update!

Thankfully the pedal has shown up! Unbelievably it was posted into a bin outside the guys house without the postman bothering to get a signature or even leave a note through the letterbox. Somehow the guy found it a week later and luckily was honest enough to let me know it had arrived, (as there is still no signature on the delivery details).

Brilliant!

I'd almost be inclined to claim anyway, given the RM have clearly contravened their own terms and conditions and now can't prove they did deliver it.

Except that it won't be worth the enormous amount of hassle they will put you through before finally denying the claim anyway...

--------------------------------------------------

A similar thing happened with something I bought on eBay a couple of years ago. The package was delivered to my bin without me signing for it and I told the guy who sold it to me. He said he was going to claim to the Royal Mail that it hadn't been delivered. Not sure if he got anything though.