P.A.T testing?

cj73

So, been a while since I gigged but current band are ready to rock and singist mentioned last night about getting our gear PAT tested.  Now I'm totally in agreement with the "lets not kill people with our gear" ethos but I had a look on the HSE website......oh lord.   It would seem that the values for competent and reasonable will be decided by the HSE in the event of something going wrong.  And lets not get started on the "is portable appliance testing (PAT) compulsory?" question.


Singist is an HSE inspector BTW but specialises in petrochemical stuff.

StageStruck

Some of the places that demand PAT test certs have got a bloody cheek given the nick of their fixed electrical installations. However, if venues demand it, there's not a lot you can do. What it does do however is put the onus on the appliance owner if something does happen to go wrong.

cj73

I guess I'm just a bit peeved by the vagueness of the website, I'm not in anyway trying to avoid doing it.   I know my way around a multi-meter, am I competent?

Danny1969

The whole thing is vague from start to finish and a bit pointless but some venues, partially hotels and wedding venues want to see a valid certificate of pass for the gear your gonna use. I do our PAT testing and put the stickers on. Then just make a spreadsheet listing the gear and the date it passed and you can normally email it to anyone who wants to see it. 

Like PL insurance, it's one of the things some venues insist on

Benson

Try these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-Safety-Test-Passed-Labels/dp/B00PKD70XW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478468737&sr=8-1&keywords=Pat+test+stickers

maltingsaudio

The good thing about PAT is that at least someone vaguely knowledgeable looks at your gear once a year and judges it to be safe (or not ) at that particular time. Bit like your cars MOT really, at the time the certificate was printed your car was safe.

ICBM

maltingsaudio said:

The good thing about PAT is that at least someone vaguely knowledgeable looks at your gear once a year and judges it to be safe (or not ) at that particular time. Bit like your cars MOT really, at the time the certificate was printed your car was safe.

Hmmm…

This picture was taken on 22nd Feb 2014.



ie the certificate was still valid at the time.

maltingsaudio

ICBM said:

maltingsaudio said:

The good thing about PAT is that at least someone vaguely knowledgeable looks at your gear once a year and judges it to be safe (or not ) at that particular time. Bit like your cars MOT really, at the time the certificate was printed your car was safe.

Hmmm…

This picture was taken on 22nd Feb 2014.



ie the certificate was still valid at the time.

My point exactly,

ICBM

So you think the cable retention became incorrect *after* the PAT sticker was applied, and also the wrong fuse later fitted? (Admittedly in the less wrong direction.)

I don't.

That's not the first time I've seen stuff with PAT stickers on that hasn't been checked properly either.

Wazmeister

Competence is classed as Knowledge, Ability, Training and Experience.

Its the evidence of those that constitute competence. 

maltingsaudio

ICBM said:

So you think the cable retention became incorrect *after* the PAT sticker was applied, and also the wrong fuse later fitted? (Admittedly in the less wrong direction.)

I don't.

That's not the first time I've seen stuff with PAT stickers on that hasn't been checked properly eit.

@icbm you seem to have missed the irony in my comment.Whilst one expects the tested equipment to be correct   the moment the sticker is put on it, you cannot guarantee  that to be the case a week later, let alone 11months later.As to the competence of the tester in the first place.  well that is another can of worms fed by the users reluctance to have to pay to have their gear checked

ICBM

maltingsaudio said:

@icbm you seem to have missed the irony in my comment.Whilst one expects the tested equipment to be correct   the moment the sticker is put on it, you cannot guarantee  that to be the case a week later, let alone 11months later.As to the competence of the tester in the first place.  well that is another can of worms fed by the users reluctance to have to pay to have their gear checked 

That's true, but my point is that you clearly can't guarantee the validity of it *even at the time the sticker is put on*, since I'm sure that wasn't bodged afterwards.

I don't believe whoever put that sticker on even opened the plug, which makes them careless or incompetent - and if they did then they're definitely incompetent.

So I don't believe that a PAT sticker is *ever* proof of safety, at any time.

cj73

Again, before I go on, I'm getting it done properly but if you read the HSE stuff they can't give you any time frames.   Just that things are checked within reasonable intervals so an office bound photocopier that never gets moved needs to checked less frequently than something that is moved all the time. 

Obvs I wouldn't quote you but what do guys think is a reasonable frequency to have an amp checked?

Wazmeister

@cj73 - The HSE avoid giving timelines because it depends on use and possible surroundings and injury... So, on Construction sites PAT is meant to be every 3 months...

For amps, every 12 months would be acceptable as this is normally industry best practice.

EricTheWeary

I've seen them doing PAT on appliances in offices and I've never seen them open up a plug. 

It's a ridiculously easy scheme to fake or fiddle. Electrical items should be safe according to a suitably competent person who understands the use of the item, not an electrician who is being paid to walk through a building handing out stickers.

ICBM said:

maltingsaudio said:

@icbm you seem to have missed the irony in my comment.Whilst one expects the tested equipment to be correct   the moment the sticker is put on it, you cannot guarantee  that to be the case a week later, let alone 11months later.As to the competence of the tester in the first place.  well that is another can of worms fed by the users reluctance to have to pay to have their gear checked 

That's true, but my point is that you clearly can't guarantee the validity of it *even at the time the sticker is put on*, since I'm sure that wasn't bodged afterwards.

I don't believe whoever put that sticker on even opened the plug, which makes them careless or incompetent - and if they did then they're definitely incompetent.

So I don't believe that a PAT sticker is *ever* proof of safety, at any time.

cj73

Cheers @Wazmeister.    Last noob question though.   Do you have to anything you plug into the mains tested? I'm thinking Power supplies and extension cables?

maltingsaudio

cj73 said:

Cheers @Wazmeister.    Last noob question though.   Do you have to anything you plug into the mains tested? I'm thinking Power supplies and extension cables?

Yes

maltingsaudio

It is interesting that this thread revolves around the rules, yet as we are talking about safety, what frequency do you put on checking your gear for safety?. Mine is visually checked every job.

Wazmeister

A visual check is great and necessary....

If you want to know the bumpf, a visual check is an 'informal' (as and when needed) check, and PAT is a 'formal' (over a period of time and recorded). Just saying'...

maltingsaudio

Wazmeister said:

A visual check is great and necessary....

If you want to know the bumpf, a visual check is an 'informal' (as and when needed) check, and PAT is a 'formal' (over a period of time and recorded). Just saying'...

Yes I knew that, I was more interested in encouraging others to be safety aware , as a breed we will spend hours checking our guitars and very little time if any checking our electrical gear (the "boring" stuff)