WTB - Small gigging amp with line out

sev112

So my band mates tell me, and my back tells me that I shouldn't be using my my big heavy 75w combo for our small pub and club gigs and I should just be using a much smaller 20w ish amp with a line out to the PA

so I've been doing some google research today and have come up with the following  
- fender superchamp 15w
- blackstar ID Core 40 or ID 30
- Vox Valvetronix VT20x to 40x
- HIWATT G50CMR
- BOSS katana 50

Line out is absolutely key

having read with amusement the "Amps that small like cow pooh" (or whatever it is called) I am sure this is going to be hugely subjective, and I know I need to go and try some out

but thoughts would be welcome, including any reminders of what you are currently flogging that I've missed on the forum 

in play Americana - sort of halfway between country and southern rock (at the moment at least)

thanks
 for any advice

Plectrum

Do you really need a line out though? Couldn't you just mike it up? It would massively increase the range of possible amps.

ICBM

You don't necessarily need a built-in line out - if the amp has a speaker that plugs in, or just an extension speaker jack, you can use a Hughes & Kettner Red Box or similar cabinet-emulating DI box.

For Americana you're going to want something in the Fender ballpark, I think - or something with good emulations of one of those.

For a valve amp I'd probably start with a Fender Princeton.

For solid-state I'd maybe try a Peavey Transtube.

For a modeller it's more about the sound and feel of the amp, since they all do 'American clean-ish' sounds.

Voxman

I'd add two more to your list...the new Vox AV amps.  These have digital effects but analogue valve powered preamp and power amp sections, and are specifically designed to work well with pedals too. The second amp I'd add is the Fender Mustang v2 - the 40w Mustang II (or even the 100w Mustang III) could be a good solution.  

koss59

Yeah if you're playing Americana get a Princeton reverb. There's a couple on here second hand, get that and a superlux mic from thomann. Line outs very rarely sound good.

Gassage

If you want a line out something in All Black would be best, judging from yesterday.

simonk

Tech 21 Trademark 60 has DI out which works well and can be had cheap. Or add a Palmer PDI09 to almost anything - they sound great.

TheBigDipper

What is your 75w heavy combo, and do you like the sounds it gives you? What guitar do you use?

menamestom

The Boss Katana 50 doesn't have a dedicated line out, you would need to get the 100.

cbilly22

Voxman said:

I'd add two more to your list...the new Vox AV amps.  These have digital effects but analogue valve powered preamp and power amp sections, and are specifically designed to work well with pedals too. The second amp I'd add is the Fender Mustang v2 - the 40w Mustang II (or even the 100w Mustang III) could be a good solution.  

The Mustang III V2 is actually a very good shout. Gigged one for a while and  the Fender models were very effective in a band setting.

sev112

TheBigDipper said:

What is your 75w heavy combo, and do you like the sounds it gives you? What guitar do you use?

It's my old Marshall AVT150 which I really like, it has an emulated line out, it has a range of channels and footswitch that I like and at 75W has enough power for the clean channel to stay clean for what we play. 
As everyone in t'interweb says , it is horrible sounding, a piece of crap and highly unreliable
in reality the only issue I have is that it is really heavy and I am getting old and have a bad back

I play a MIM Strat with Texas Specials as my main guitar, but I also put my Les Paul, and a cheap thinline Tele with P90s, and an electro acoustic through it.

in reality I think the next investment will be a fold up sack trolley to transport it, because until it does eventually die like all the foreseers of doom suggest, then part from the weight it does what I need .

i'm just planning in advance because if/when it does go I will need to buy quickly and I'd rather know what I will need in advance.

could I even just consider a small valve amp head if all the sound guys want is for me to go into the. PA ?

Sassafras

I second @simonk 's suggestion for the Tech 21 Combo. The line out is quite good and there's a good variety of sounds in those amps. More reliable than the Marshall too. I've used the various models for years and I'm always surprised at how good they sound.

Sassafras

Voxman said:

I'd add two more to your list...the new Vox AV amps.  These have digital effects but analogue valve powered preamp and power amp sections, and are specifically designed to work well with pedals too. The second amp I'd add is the Fender Mustang v2 - the 40w Mustang II (or even the 100w Mustang III) could be a good solution.  

I'm not sure why @Voxman but I can't help thinking you're slightly biased towards Vox amps. I can't explain it, it's just a vague impression I get.

ICBM

sev112 said:

It's my old Marshall AVT150 which I really like

...

could I even just consider a small valve amp head if all the sound guys want is for me to go into the. PA ?

Not unless it has a built-in load or a way of muting the power stage. You can't safely run a valve amp with no speaker connected otherwise.

If you like your AVT150, why not get an AVT20 or 50? I'm serious - they're cheap, you'd get the same basic sound, and they're no more unreliable - and you'd have a backup for your main amp.

(Actually if you're not pushing the big one hard it's not that likely to die - as long as the fan doesn't fail or get blocked with dirt.)

OK the small models don't have the acoustic channel, but in that case you can always go direct to the PA from the guitar. If that's not possible then the new Line6 Spider V should be on the list because it can do acoustic sounds too.

Voxman

Sassafras said:

Voxman said:

I'd add two more to your list...the new Vox AV amps.  These have digital effects but analogue valve powered preamp and power amp sections, and are specifically designed to work well with pedals too. The second amp I'd add is the Fender Mustang v2 - the 40w Mustang II (or even the 100w Mustang III) could be a good solution.  

I'm not sure why @Voxman but I can't help thinking you're slightly biased towards Vox amps. I can't explain it, it's just a vague impression I get.

Sassfras, I know you like to post comments like this which I'm sure are just meant in good fun.  But I thought I'd respond properly just in case, especially as my handle is 'Voxman'.  

So, nope, that's nonsense - there has been lots of Vox amps I didn't like such as the VR15/30R, or the AC15/30VR amps, which I've stated on numerous occasions, inc here. I also didn't like the Vox AC30 Custom Classic or the 'metal' version of the original chrome Vox ADxxVT Valvetronix, or the Classic Plus range - not my cup of tea.  I also wouldn't buy a Vox AC4 but that's simply because I don't like low powered valve amps - but for those that do it's actually a nice little amp. 

I haven't heard the AV range personally but it has had glowing reviews and I've not heard anything bad about it. Vox has patented what it calls its Valve-reactor design, and as far as I'm aware it is the only major amp manufacturer that currently mixes digital modelling (analogue in the case of the AV range, plus digital effects) with valves.  I suppose Blackstar might fall into that category - debatable as to whether all their valves are 'true' valve amps.  

As most people feel that valves have advantages when it comes to enhanced tone, playability, feel, dynamics, and volume etc, by combining technologies the Vox amps have a distinctive 'USP'. The Valvetronix amps remain extremely popular, and whilst its previous 'analogue 'valve-reactor' efforts have been less than sparkling, the new AV range seems to have got it right.  And there are Fret Boarders here who have the AV and the new VT-X range, who say these are excellent.  So, suggesting that the OP looks at them seems very reasonable.

You'll also see from here and other threads that for DSP I like the Fender Mustang range of DSP amps, because I think they are well designed and sound very good too, and offer a huge amount for not much money.  Our other guitarist in the band has a Mustang III, which has a proper 12" Celestion and sounds very good - and its darned loud too!  

Valve amp wise I have two Laney's - a lovely VC30-210 (that ICBM helped solve a recent problem on) and a super little 1x12 combo, the Laney Cub 12R that I revalved with hand-tested JJ's and replaced the crap cheap Celestion with a Vintage 30.  I also have a Marshall JCM2000 DSL401 and a Marshall Valvestate Mk1 1x12 8080 '80v'.  Plus I have a little Vox Mini-3.  

Discounting the tiny Mini-3,  I make that only one Vox amp, as against 2 Laneys and 2 Marshalls.  I do have Vox TLLE, TLSE, and TLST MFX units.  The TLST was a gift, the TLLE I bought and liked it so much I got the TLSE for extra gigging control.  I've tried Line 6 HD500X, Digitech RP500/1000, Zoom G5 (that I'm selling), and the Boss GT100 - none of which met my gigging needs as well as the TLLE/SE ie sensible balance of good tone, feel, switching capabilities, ease of use, and ruggedness.  For the record, I don't like the TLEX - the little TLST was a rush job and it should have been the TLEX.  Fine for bedroom playing but the TLEX IMHO is designed like a toy and missing important things like single pedal switching, patch-naming, better parameter controls, & connectivity - and those two speakers stuck on?!...I mean, what's all that about - it sounds way better just through headphones!

When the Blackstar ID range came out I was intrigued by the marketing and wanted to buy one - but when I tried an ID60 I was massively underwhelmed, and much preferred my AD120VTX.  Other amps like the compact ID Core and Yamaha THR range I've tried & I just don't get why they seem so popular.  They are 'OK' but are nothing special and IMHO there's way better stuff out there. 

So, I have no allegiance to Vox in any way - but they do make some very good amps and other gear.  I'll recommend gear (through personal experience) or suggest (where reviews are good but I've not yet played them myself) any gear that I think might fit the bill for someone.  Another of the new amps on my list to try is the Katana - its about time Boss brought out a great sounding amp, and reviews both here & on-line suggest Boss has got it right this time and that these are terrific amps at a great price. 

TheBigDipper

sev112 said:

TheBigDipper said:

What is your 75w heavy combo, and do you like the sounds it gives you? What guitar do you use?

It's my old Marshall AVT150 which I really like, it has an emulated line out, it has a range of channels and footswitch that I like and at 75W has enough power for the clean channel to stay clean for what we play. 
<snip>
could I even just consider a small valve amp head if all the sound guys want is for me to go into the. PA ?

Well, I've got another suggestion - which may well get scorn thrown at it by people who've tried them and then moved on. 

I use (and I'm not selling) a BluGuitar Amp1 + FatCab. I wouldn't put it up in a studio shootout against a Carr, but as a live amp within a band mix it's light (1Kg), small and sounds decent. For me it replaced a Rivera combo and I don't miss it. The programming and switching features are well thought out and solve real problems faced by lots of us. The emulated speaker out is OK but not spectacular - again, fine in a live mix. You can use any cab with it (I started off just using the Vintage30 in my Cornford Harlequin combo) - but the FatCab is small and light compared to others. 

However, some people have tried them and just didn't like the sounds they could get. Others have experienced problems and felt exposed because these amps are "return to base" for repair. I had a noisy tone control with mine that was a warranty swap-out. The replacement has been fine. I do understand why some will find it a step too far, though... 

Sassafras

You're first instinct was right. I was just having a bit of fun based around your name @Voxman ;
I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you get kick-backs from Korg Corporation every time you mention Vox. Sorry if I gave that impression.

Voxman

Sassafras said:

You're first instinct was right. I was just having a bit of fun based around your name @Voxman ;;
I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you get kick-backs from Korg Corporation every time you mention Vox. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I realise that, no worries mate!    (but if only I were...think of all the gear I could buy!) 

drwiddly

I have an AMT Stonehead that I'm thinking of selling. Great little amp but it's not getting used as much as I thought. It's 50w solid state, 4 channel with an fx loop and line out. Small and light too. PM me if you might be interested.

Plectrum

ICBM said:

OK the small models don't have the acoustic channel, but in that case you can always go direct to the PA from the guitar. If that's not possible then the new Line6 Spider V should be on the list because it can do acoustic sounds too.

Well if we're throwing modellers into to the mix I'm going to suggest the CODE 50. It too has an electro-acoustic sim plus if you use the Natural pre-amp model you can put an actual electro-acoustic (or even a keyboard) though it. I've tried putting an electro-acoustic through and it's not too bad - probably at least as good as an AVT although, like you, my preference would be to put the acoustic through the PA. It only weighs 13kg so it's pretty back-friendly and at £39 the foot-switch is a lot more pocket-friendly than the Spider V's IMHO.

Beexter

simonk said:

Or add a Palmer PDI09 to almost anything - they sound great.

^ this if you decide to go down the valve amp route.

The Roland Cube's are worth a shout too on the solid state side of things. The 80XL and 60 have line outs, very portable, easy to set up and sound good. In my experience, they were also plenty loud enough on their own for gigging and I don't think I ever had to rely on the line out.....