Deluxe 65 vs Princeton 65 Volume

cbakay

Hi all,  

Can anyone weigh in on a direct comparison between a DRRI & PRRI in terms of volume only, i.e., what does a 2 or 4 etc on a deluxe correspond on a Princeton.

thank you  

Lebarque

The main difference is the 10 v 12 inch speaker. I found the 10 in the Princeton not quite enough for gigging, but if you put an efficient 12 in there, there's not much difference to a deluxe.

menamestom

I gig my PRRI with a 10 inch speaker, although you need to change from stock to have any clean headroom.  I've not compared side by side but I would imagine it's not far off a stock DRRI, but I may be wrong.  Mine has had an OT change as well, that made a difference.  Also changing to JJ 6V6 has improved headroom, all this at the expense if some low volume sweetness.  Not what you asked, but may be of some use?   

menamestom

Lebarque said:

The main difference is the 10 v 12 inch speaker. I found the 10 in the Princeton not quite enough for gigging, but if you put an efficient 12 in there, there's not much difference to a deluxe.

It's not so much the speaker size as the efficiency, the stock Jensen in the PRRI is very low.  My current 10 inch speaker is more than many 12's, from memory there wasn't much difference in volume between that and a Celestion Gold in a 1x12 cab.  Of course the 12 inch may emphasis different frequencies that change perceived volume but on out and out output, 2 100db speakers, for example should sound very similar in loudness. 

strtdv

A stock PRRI isn't quite enough to keep up with a drummer (well if you push it into sonic mush it might just), but I much prefer the sound of the PRRI to the DRRI, so as has been suggested, a PRRI with a high efficiency speaker should get you there.

richardhomer

strtdv said:

 I much prefer the sound of the PRRI to the DRRI, so as has been suggested, a PRRI with a high efficiency speaker should get you there.

I recently tried the two side by side and was surprised how loud both were - though judging headroom in a shop situation isn't easy.

I completely agree that the PRRI is a much nicer sounding amp - so much so that I'm going to have to buy one sooner or later....

Col_Decker

menamestom said:

I gig my PRRI with a 10 inch speaker, although you need to change from stock to have any clean headroom.  I've not compared side by side but I would imagine it's not far off a stock DRRI, but I may be wrong.  Mine has had an OT change as well, that made a difference.  Also changing to JJ 6V6 has improved headroom, all this at the expense if some low volume sweetness.  Not what you asked, but may be of some use?   

Any recommendations for speaker upgrades to give a bit more clean head room on the PRRI? I don't want country cleans, but a smidge more cleanliness when the vol is around 6 would be nice.

ICBM

The Eminence Ragin' Cajun seems to be the go-to choice in a 10", if you want to keep the basic 'Fender' character.

That said I can vouch for how loud a Celestion Blue is in one, if you want to cut out or replace the baffle.

If it's purely clean headroom you need, it's worth looking into the 'Stokes mod' as well, although I haven't actually tried this on a reissue yet - it may be more tricky than it is on an original.

Lebarque

I did the Princeton 'journey' a number of years ago, and got mine sounding awesome, bigger and louder with three easy mods which turn a Princeton into a Deluxe killer (no affiliations):

Speaker
Whereas the 4x10 format is no doubt epic - super reverb, bassman etc, I much prefer to have a 12 in a single-speaker amp for its 'bigger' sound. I'd therefore recommend a new baffle and a 12. If you want the traditional Fendery sound, the Weber 12F150 is good and I've heard great things about the WGS G12C (or G12C/S for a smoother top end). For something a bit more meaty, the WGS ET65 gets great reviews in a Deluxe or Princeton.

Transformer
It only takes a little bit of soldering to upgrade to a beefier transformer, for tightened bass and bigger sound. I had good luck with a Bill M TO20, which @menamestom has since had success with too.

Valves 
JJ 6v6s are big ballsy 6V6, a bit like a cross between 6V6 and 6L6. They definitely made it more chunky!

hywelg

ICBM said:

The Eminence Ragin' Cajun seems to be the go-to choice in a 10", if you want to keep the basic 'Fender' character.

Matt Schofield had those in his 4x10 cab at one point, might still have. They are very good indeed. apparently the 10's in the DrZ 4x10 are rebranded emi Ram Rods and that cab sounds excel as well. 

I would.love to.try a cab with some Gold 10's in. And IME 4x10's sound bigger and fuller than any 1x12. The attack is good too, they seem to move quicker thana 12.

camf

I have a Celestion Blue in mine and as @ICBM confirms above, it sounds fab... and it's definitely loud.

IvisonGuitars

camf said:

I have a Celestion Blue in mine and as @ICBM confirms above, it sounds fab... and it's definitely loud.

Do you have any other mods @camf or just the speaker change? 

camf

@miserneil It's the FSR Navy Blues Limited Edition model with the speaker fitted as stock. I believe it was the same price as the standard version which would make it a stonking deal as the 12" baffle and alnico Celestion Blue are, as far as I'm concerned, perfect for the amp. The only downside is that it adds a few extra pounds but IMHO... very well worth it.