So then the Amazon Fire Stick and that Kodi thing

Col_Decker

What's the deal yo? I bought one on over the weekend and as instructed by everyone at work I've installed Kodi onto it. It can't be legal can it? Am I being a naughty boy?

I've also put Exodus, Zem, and UKTV on it

vasselmeyer

Kodi is perfectly legal. It's an Open Source project that has publically-auditable code. The extensions which allow you to watch streams or live TV are generally either  dubiously or blatantly illegal. If you use an extension that works off streams or torrents and you aren't using a persitant VPN then you should be aware that your ISP will be able to see everything you're doing.

I use it, as it's a great piece of software, but only for my own media and never for live TV or streaming.

crunchman

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/photo-video/is-streaming-pirate-movies-legal-3640854/

According to this, as an end user you aren't breaking the law.  The people who provide the content are though.

While it might not be illegal, whether it's ethical is a completely different question.

Col_Decker

Ethics I can live with. Hi Ho Kodi awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

spark240

Isn't it similar to the old Napster music sharing....which eventually collapsed..

crunchman

I'm sure that the record companies and film distributors are lobbying governments to get the law changed.

vasselmeyer

crunchman said:

I'm sure that the record companies and film distributors are lobbying governments to get the law changed.

I'm sure they are. There's NOTHING illegal about Kodi; it's people who use the architecture of the software to develop plugins which then link to sites with content for which the  copyright holders don't get paid when it's consumed.

kipple

Col_Decker said:

What's the deal yo? I bought one on over the weekend and as instructed by everyone at work I've installed Kodi onto it. It can't be legal can it? Am I being a naughty boy?

I've also put Exodus, Zem, and UKTV on it

You need to be VERY careful on this ... @Col_Decker ;;

Kodi is just a piece of software that is Maintained by a group of developers called the XBMC foundation and there was a legal ruling a few years ago that stated that streaming content through kodi is perfectly legal regardless of whether it was content that was on paid viewing basis and it is legal anywhere in the EU but this it where it gets tricky as under some circumstances using KODI is most definitely illegal.

So..It works like this if you use a Box such as an KODI MXQ or any type of MBOX or a non subscription based android box that contains KODI you are safe.
BUT.... if you use a subscription based box that has been chipped such as a SKY box or a VIRGIN media or a subscription based device Such as Amazon or Amazon Firestick thats has had KODI downloaded then you have essentially Hacked a device that is subscription based and therefore by definition it is MOST definitely Illegal.

If you going to use KODI then DO NOT use Amazon or SKY or a Virgin box. Amazon is Subscription based and a lot of the viewing content on amazon is licensed. 

If you are using Amazon and use a stream from say torba you can end up streaming a false file that will lead back to your IP and get you some serious Fines.    
You may well get away with it for some time but you are risking getting caught. 

I worked with this stuff for some time and have seen various individuals end up in a lot of grief by using subscription based boxes .
Someone very close to me got caught and fined £11K and couldn't pay which resulted in the county sheriff/bailiffs entering their home and basically caused complete chaos to their life.

There is currently a legal battle that is challenging retailers rights to sell any type of box that is fully loaded which in my opinion is pointless as you will still be able to by the boxes and load KODI onto it yourself.
Also the law stating streaming is legal through non subscription based boxes only applies to streamed content and if you Download instead of streaming on ANY device that is also Illegal.

Take my word for it and stay well away from any box that is subscription based.
Just get an MBOX or Kodi box and only stream and then you are perfectly Legal.
I am currently using Kodi on an MXQ and its perfectly legal ,I would NOT use KODI on Amazon devices or any other type of box such as SKY or Virgin .

You should also be careful what skins you use as some of them present serious security threats to your personal data including banking stuff

crunchman

Not that I'd do it but what would the situation be if you deregistered the Firestick?  While it's registered to an account then it's simple, but if you deregister it, or buy one second hand, then you own a piece of hardware but you don't have the subscription and the terms that go with it.

kipple

crunchman said:

Not that I'd do it but what would the situation be if you deregistered the Firestick?  While it's registered to an account then it's simple, but if you deregister it, or buy one second hand, then you own a piece of hardware but you don't have the subscription and the terms that go with it.

Nope that would make no difference legally as the device is only legal to use for licensed content and specifically the content that is controlled by the license for that device and only when the subscription is paid.
The license Always Applies to the box

Try to imagine telling a judge ..I'm sorry your honor but because I was using a sky box but wasn't paying sky subscriptions I thought it would be legal to stream sky films through Kodi without paying..
Or telling a judge I'm sorry your Honor But I thought it would be OK to watch westworld or man in the high castle on an amazon box because I Haven't paid for the amazon box or my Amazon subscription . NOPE.. Take the prisoner DOWN

You ONLY have the right to watch content on the device that is licensed for that device when the subscription is paid.
It makes NO difference if the device is used or subscription is lapsed etc

Col_Decker

£11k you say? Well that's fucked it.

crunchman

kipple said:

crunchman said:

Not that I'd do it but what would the situation be if you deregistered the Firestick?  While it's registered to an account then it's simple, but if you deregister it, or buy one second hand, then you own a piece of hardware but you don't have the subscription and the terms that go with it.

Nope that would make no difference legally as the device is only legal to use for licensed content and only when the subscription is paid.
Try to imagine telling a judge ..I'm sorry your honor but because I was using a sky box but wasn't paying sky subscriptions I thought it would be legal to stream sky films without paying..
Or telling a judge I'm sorry your Honor But I thought it would be OK to watch westworld or man in the high castle on Amazon an amazon box because I Haven't paid for the box or my subscription . NOPE.. Take the prisoner DOWN

Once you've bought a physical object then surely it is yours to do with as you want.  You could use it as a paperweight.

If you just used the Kodi app and didn't use any of the Amazon content, or just used it as a casting device for an Android tablet then where is the issue?

Col_Decker

kipple said:

Col_Decker said:

What's the deal yo? I bought one on over the weekend and as instructed by everyone at work I've installed Kodi onto it. It can't be legal can it? Am I being a naughty boy?

I've also put Exodus, Zem, and UKTV on it

...

So..It works like this if you use a Box such as an KODI MXQ or any type of MBOX or a non subscription based android box that contains KODI you are safe.
BUT.... if you use a subscription based box that has been chipped such as a SKY box or a VIRGIN media or a subscription based device Such as Amazon or Amazon Firestick thats has had KODI downloaded then you have essentially Hacked a device that is subscription based and therefore by definition it is MOST definitely Illegal.

If you going to use KODI then DO NOT use Amazon or SKY or a Virgin box. Amazon is Subscription based and a lot of the viewing content on amazon is licensed. ...

Does that mean that if you have Kodi and DON't subscribe to Amazon Prime via the subscription that you'd be legally ok?

kipple

crunchman said:

kipple said:

crunchman said:

Not that I'd do it but what would the situation be if you deregistered the Firestick?  While it's registered to an account then it's simple, but if you deregister it, or buy one second hand, then you own a piece of hardware but you don't have the subscription and the terms that go with it.

Nope that would make no difference legally as the device is only legal to use for licensed content and only when the subscription is paid.
Try to imagine telling a judge ..I'm sorry your honor but because I was using a sky box but wasn't paying sky subscriptions I thought it would be legal to stream sky films without paying..
Or telling a judge I'm sorry your Honor But I thought it would be OK to watch westworld or man in the high castle on Amazon an amazon box because I Haven't paid for the box or my subscription . NOPE.. Take the prisoner DOWN

Once you've bought a physical object then surely it is yours to do with as you want.  You could use it as a paperweight.

If you just used the Kodi app and didn't use any of the Amazon content, or just used it as a casting device for an Android tablet then where is the issue?

It's Illegal 
It isn't a paperweight it is a licensed product and it is coded into the device and if you use for KODI and get caught you will wish it was just a paperweight.
The Licensed content that Amazon provides is huge and you would have no way of knowing if something you were watching was licensed to amazon. you could easily watch something that was licensed to sky virgin and amazon and all 3 of them could come after you. 
It makes no difference if you use the Box to connect to an android tablet it is still the same thing.

A sky box is a physical object and yes once you buy it it is yours but it is still a licensed product and using it as a paperweight is not subject to the terms of the license that applies to the box.. Amazon products are the same..

My advice to anyone using KODI or thinking of using it is to Just use the Kodi box or MBOX type boxes as they are legal to use for streaming plus The KODI boxes are cheaper than the Amazon products and have NO subscription 

crunchman

I know where you are coming from a practical viewpoint.  If you want to use KODI then use a different device.

But on the general principle, if I sell my Firestick at a boot sale this weekend and someone buys it they have no subscription or license with Amazon.  Let's say they then take it apart for some of the components, or write their own OS and put on it.  (Or buy ten of them and plug them in to heat their room - they can get seriously warm).  You cannot say that the physical device itself is licensed.  It has to be the Amazon content that is licensed.  I guess that using the OS that comes with it is using their software but I can buy a Windows PC and uninstall Windows and put Linux on it.  What's to stop me doing the same with a Firestick?

kipple

Col_Decker said:

£11k you say? Well that's fucked it.

Yes sorry to say it's true. Just get a KODI box off Ebay its the same content but legal. 

FX_Munkee

How exactly are Amazon going to be able to tell that I was streaming content to my Fire box sideloaded with Kodi as opposed to my MXQ box with Kodi on it, when all they have is my routers ISP allocated IP address?

kipple

crunchman said:

I know where you are coming from a practical viewpoint.  If you want to use KODI then use a different device.

But on the general principle, if I sell my Firestick at a boot sale this weekend and someone buys it they have no subscription or license with Amazon.  Let's say they then take it apart for some of the components, or write their own OS and put on it.  (Or buy ten of them and plug them in to heat their room - they can get seriously warm).  You cannot say that the physical device itself is licensed.  It has to be the Amazon content that is licensed.  I guess that using the OS that comes with it is using their software but I can buy a Windows PC and uninstall Windows and put Linux on it.  What's to stop me doing the same with a Firestick?

That is Exactly what I am saying the Amazon Device itself in it's stock form is most definitely a licensed product regardless of who owns it and the license applies to a specific type of use. which is where the legal implications stem from.

But if... as you suggest sell it to me on a boot sale and I then open it up and take out the hardware inside and replace it with something else ...Lets say the hardware from a KODI MBOX then it is no longer an Amazon Licensed device but that is not really what we are talking about . The OP had a question that was about using a Licensed device in a specific way.
Using it in the manner that the OP described is when the license applies
If you use it as a doorstop the license does not apply.  

thomasw88

get a raspberry pi..

kipple

FX_Munkee said:

How exactly are Amazon going to be able to tell that I was streaming content to my Fire box sideloaded with Kodi as opposed to my MXQ box with Kodi on it, when all they have is my routers ISP allocated IP address?

Does it need to work like that ? I don't know let me think ...
Lets just say amazon are aware that someone is streaming Amazon content to your address Maybe they would check to see if that address is on the amazon database as being registered for an Amazon Subscription and if not then perhaps someone will knock on your door.

But much more importantly what makes you think that just because you are using an amazon device loaded with KODI that it is JUST Amazon that will come after you . it is just as likely to be SKY . 
There will no doubt be someone out there using Amazon fire loaded with KODI and using it with sky broadband to stream sky content . do you really think the ISP provider cannot see that...
Whatever makes you happy is fine but the point is this the law is clear use a device that is not subscription based like an MBOX and then streaming is LEGAL.

FX_Munkee

kipple said:

FX_Munkee said:

How exactly are Amazon going to be able to tell that I was streaming content to my Fire box sideloaded with Kodi as opposed to my MXQ box with Kodi on it, when all they have is my routers ISP allocated IP address?

Does it need to work like that ? I don't know let me think ...
Lets just say amazon are aware that someone is streaming Amazon content to your address Maybe they would check to see if that address is on the amazon database as being registered for an Amazon Subscription and if not then perhaps someone will knock on your door.

But much more importantly what makes you think that just because you are using an amazon device loaded with KODI that it is JUST Amazon that will come after you . it is just as likely to be SKY . 
There will no doubt be someone out there using Amazon fire loaded with KODI and using it with sky broadband to stream sky content . do you really think the ISP provider cannot see that...
Whatever makes you happy is fine but the point is this the law is clear use a device that is not subscription based like an MBOX and then streaming is LEGAL.

So when SKY, Amazon, Virgin et al come knocking I just have to produce my MXQ box and all is right with the world?
What I'm trying to point out is that none of the above providers can prove you were using anything other than the MXQ box, neither can your ISP, all they have is an IP address.

Also the bit in bold, they can see what IP you hooked up to, they can possibly inspect the contents of the stream, they have absolutely no idea what device I am using behind my router.

So I guess it boils down to this. I'm slightly confused as to why copyright theft is legal when committed on a generic device but illegal on a subscription device?