Why are singers so difficult ?

Cookiemonster

We are looking for a singer but finding it hard to find someone who A) turns up is only really interested to steal one of us for there other band or C) in the case of an old singer who we miss but had an ego the size of a cult leader. 

All we want is someone to come sing on the originals and learn some covers. Now we have a recording space and all so should be easy. But it's not. Our drummer just started playing with some other lads doing coversion, they invited a singer down and .....  he didn't turn up. Wierd

Skipped

My choice (from 400  Musicians) to go on Holiday with........would be as follows:

1. Drummer
2. Bass player
3. Keyboard player
4. Trumpet player
.
.
.
.
.
28. Singer
.
.
.
.
382. Guitarist

Cirrus

Cookiemonster said:

finding it hard to find someone who A) turns up is only really interested to steal one of us for there other band or C) in the case of an old singer who we miss but had an ego the size of a cult leader. 

This is my favourite ever list. It's perfect.

4114Effects

Cirrus said:

Cookiemonster said:

finding it hard to find someone who A) turns up is only really interested to steal one of us for there other band or C) in the case of an old singer who we miss but had an ego the size of a cult leader. 

This is my favourite ever list. It's perfect.

Perfect in that it makes just about no sense whatsoever? Attempting to decipher it messes with my mind. I love it.

ICBM

Tell me about it… we're currently on a hiatus while our current singer decides to take a break, having decided he'd quite like to change the direction of the band/set list. We maybe have someone else who's interested but still not sure whether the first one will come back - he's very uncommunicative.

This is about the fourth one who's started with great promise and then it's all gone tits up after about a year. Not sure what we're doing wrong really.

Currently wondering about whether to become an Explosions In The Sky/God Is An Astronaut/Maybeshewill instrumental band but not thinking there's much of an audience for that sort of stuff on the pub circuit.

guitarfishbay

We auditioned loads, until we discovered the bassist could sing. So he got lessons and we got a new bassist as he didn't want to play and sing.

slacker

IMHO there's a difference between the 'singer' and musician who can sing. I know quite a few band leaders who are decent singers and can play guitar or keyboards, sometimes bass and do a good job of interacting with the audience.

I'm trying to think of the number of (just) singers I have worked with or know through friends who can do a decent job of singing and fronting a band. So since 1980? It's probably 4 and I've been in lots of bands and depped.

I think that a lot of them think that they are special (they are right but not the way they think they are) and don't have to buy gear, haul it or do any background work. Most of the bands that I have worked with have failed because of the singer and most of the remainder it was the guitarist. I'm not exempt, I've rage quitted a few bands. However I've met many difficult singers.

When I have a choice ie I'm leading the band I will do lead vocals, not because I'm good at it (actually I get stage fright when I do it) but because it's easier than dealing with some twat or diva with an ego measured in Mjup and the improvement over my own vocals isn't worth the effort.

Skipped

A musician friend asked me years ago: How do I weed out the "Dicks" when auditioning guitarists for a classic rock band? They are able to keep up the pretence that they are not a Dick for the duration of a 20 minute audition.

I said:  Here is what you do. You tell each guitarist that you want to run through All Right Now.
You then pause for 5 seconds as they visibly relax.
You then say....."But not in A"
You then observe the auditionee carefully....the responses will vary. A lot.

That is it.
See which auditionee just gets on with it......with no drama......no toys coming out of the pram......no protestations that "The Singer does not get to choose the Key".......

See which auditionee calmly reaches down to a gig bag.....for a capo.
And then give her the job.

RocknRollDave

I took over vocals in my band after, well, every other member of the band left at the end of last year*. I could just about stand the idea of having to find a new rhythm section, but I broke out in hives at the very thought of vocalist auditions...So I did it myself instead.
Until that point, I didn't really believe I could do it, hence the time I have wasted on auditioning singers in previous bands.
I'm no Freddie Mercury, but I can hold a tune and interact with an audience at least as well as some of the plonkers I have endured being in a band with in the past who claimed to be singers.
(Our most recent previous singer very much the exception, big shoes to fill).

Aside from the additional stress of (a) Having to sing couples' first dances (no pressure!) and (b) living in constant fear of the next cold/ sore throat, it is a huge relief not to have to have a singer in the band...although I appreciate my band mates may not share that same view.






(I also took the opportunity to change to a different brand of deodorant and upped my tooth-brushing game)

EricTheWeary

Good singers have options, there's stuff they can do that doesn't involve sweaty Wednesday evenings in a rehearsal room and unloading PA gear into the hallway at 2am Sunday morning. In most bands most of the time you'll also sound better to most people most of the time if the music fits the singer rather than the singer trying to fit the music. 

Presenting someone with a set list as a fait accompli often isn't going to work : not everything might suit their voice and learning songs as a singist is generally a slower process than for instrumentalists. Some people can sing but have no idea how to work within a band because they've been getting cues from the recorded music. 

It's also the role in the band most affected by performance anxiety, your nerves will stop you singing properly and you can't just push on through. It might even be the thing that stops you turning up to an audition, which maybe why those who do have massive egos. 

I'd echo that the 'find the existing band member with the least objectionable voice' approach is fairly tried and tested ( Pink Floyd, Genesis for starters).

GavRichList

Because fundamentally, they're the single most important thing to get right. Finding someone who doesn't write awful lyrics and utterly mundane melodies is rare. Add stage presence and charisma to your list of requirements and they're rarer still.  The amount of bands you hear with singers guilty of failing all of the above is astounding. Capable guitarists are ten a penny, as are bassists. Even drummers to a lesser extent. A singer is the entire identity of a band to all non musicians, and it's why a band with a shit singer will never get anywhere. 

CabbageCat

Cirrus said:

Cookiemonster said:

finding it hard to find someone who A) turns up is only really interested to steal one of us for there other band or C) in the case of an old singer who we miss but had an ego the size of a cult leader. 

This is my favourite ever list. It's perfect.

The things I like best about it are A) the b) when you get your first car and 3) Danny Glover.

RocknRollDave

EricTheWeary said:

Presenting someone with a set list as a fait accompli often isn't going to work : not everything might suit their voice

A-frikkin'-MEN, brother Eric.

I will often be presented with a list of songs that the clients have asked us to play (and we will be expected to know and play) and sometimes they are just totally unsuited to my voice and I know it will be a worse gig than it would have been had we been left to put the setlist together ourselves.
The worst one involved Good Times by Chic, Get Down On It by Kool and his Gang and similar tunage. Bad enough trying to fill out those kinds of songs in a guitar-centric trio, but trying to sing like a velvet-throated black man or angelic black American female...bit beyond my pipes...shocking, I know.

jpttaylor

I will say in fairness that a singer has to take the main brunt of the criticism when people are talking about bands playing. As guitarists, no one in the audience cares if we use an analog delay rather than a digital delay or we missed a couple of notes in a solo, but if the singer has a nightmare, everyone knows about it. They are the ones that are front and centre on most stages.

That said, while they may be the main focal point on stage, that doesn't give them the right to not help out with other things like lifting amps/guitars into car boots or even little things like booking rehearsal spaces.

impmann

GavRichList said:

Because fundamentally, they're the single most important thing to get right. Finding someone who doesn't write awful lyrics and utterly mundane melodies is rare. Add stage presence and charisma to your list of requirements and they're rarer still.  The amount of bands you hear with singers guilty of failing all of the above is astounding. Capable guitarists are ten a penny, as are bassists. Even drummers to a lesser extent. A singer is the entire identity of a band to all non musicians, and it's why a band with a shit singer will never get anywhere. 

Not sure I totally agree with that.

Yes they are the front person of the band and yes they are very important... but realistically if your drummer is shit, then the whole band is shit. If your singer is a bit crap, you can be a good band with a weak singer - exhibit A: Ian Brown.

The trick, if you have a singer who has a limited range or who writes awful lyrics is to 1) write songs that have vocal lines that suit your singer and 2) remove the lyric writing from them - exhibit B: Stone Roses.

These things can be resolved but a bad drummer = shit band as they throw *everybody* out and a good drummer will take a dull track and inject life into it rythmically...

GavRichList

It's why I hesitated over drummer... it is of course dependant on what type of band we're taking; my judgement comes from the "write your own songs and release a record" side as aposed to say a covers band... having been in and around the industry for longer than I care to think about, the singer is pretty much the be all and end all to success or failure. ive only worked with two who I'd consider worthwhile in over a decade. Ian brown couldn't sing, but melodies are still there to a point, plus he had stage presence in spades. (Not a Roses fan myself, but undeniable). 

ICBM

Same with Anthony Keidis. Bad singer, often worse lyrics - but some charisma, and the results are usually OK to good. Even though John Frusciante can also vary wildly between genius and Eh? sometimes. But at their best, the Chili Peppers are great... and at their worst, successful.

GavRichList

Also... I can program a virtual drummer. Can't say the same for a singer. 

*edit, well I mean with a vocoder I could have a stab, but....

TimmyO

RocknRollDave said:

Aside from the additional stress of (a) Having to sing couples' first dances (no pressure!) and (b) living in constant fear of the next cold/ sore throat, 

haha - yes to both!

First dances were a nerve shredder for me 

FarleyUK

Skipped said:

A musician friend asked me years ago: How do I weed out the "Dicks" when auditioning guitarists for a classic rock band? They are able to keep up the pretence that they are not a Dick for the duration of a 20 minute audition.

I said:  Here is what you do. You tell each guitarist that you want to run through All Right Now.
You then pause for 5 seconds as they visibly relax.
You then say....."But not in A"
You then observe the auditionee carefully....the responses will vary. A lot.

That is it.
See which auditionee just gets on with it......with no drama......no toys coming out of the pram......no protestations that "The Singer does not get to choose the Key".......

See which auditionee calmly reaches down to a gig bag.....for a capo.
And then give her the job.

Or calmly adjusts their pedals so that they get a pitch-shifted effect

thecolourbox

I think it's also because Singists tend to be naturally good at singing whereas instrumentalists, no matter how talented they are, have had to work hard to be as good as they are, and have had to learn the musical side of it a hell of a lot more than a singist needs to. This puts a chip on their shoulder because it's somethung they can just do, and often the egos are in no short measure a protectionary measure against cocking something up and looking daft as the centrestage representative of the band. I think.

I'm the singer diva in my band, but that's because there's only me in it and I felt I had to have somebody fulfilling that role. Even though I can't actually sing very well.