Digital vs Digital

EricTheWeary

I've mentioned how lazy journalism ( small detail stuff that takes seconds to check) became the nail in the coffin of Guitarist for me. 

I know I've mentioned this before as well: Pete Anderson is the only pro guitarist I know of (although he's  probably better known for his Reverend signature models than his playing)who gigs with a first generation POD but that's into a power amp and cab. A couple of the POD models were based on his own Fenders. Which is nice...

I also remember something in Guitar Player about a top Beatles tribute who only used PODs straight to PA but that's going back a bit.

vasselmeyer

To make things even more confusing and contentious,  I believe that Johnson were actually the first with an integrated (amp modelling and effects) amp with the JM150. I think it was John johnson who started DOD and Digitech. I think Line 6 bought out Johnson and then evolved that into the Vetta. Johnson  also had the J-Station which was more expensive than the POD but sounded way better (at the time). 

Cirrus

Random unwelcome anecdote time.

I didn't use a pod until 2004, when one was proffered for a studio recording. I have to admit I was surprised how difficult it was to eke a good tone out of them - they felt very flat and lifeless, and just didn't sit at all like I was used to in the mix - it was either on top or buried. Until then I'd heard so many people rave about them are read the reviews which were very positive, so it definitely didn't live up to my expectations and I had no bias one way or the other.

I remember the Music used Vetta amps around that time. You can kind of hear from the mix how the guitars are really forward because that's the way you were forced to mix that sound. Live the guitars had a bit of that "lots of noise but hard to hear the note" thing going on.

On the other hand, one of Roger Water's touring guitarists used a Yamaha modelling stack and sounded truly fantastic, even next to Snowy White with his stereo AC30 setup.

crunchman

I was at a gig on the eve of the millennium where the lead guitarist used the 150W Johnson modeller.  He sounded really good - a lot better than the rhythm guitarist who was using a real valve amp.  To be fair he was a lot better guitarist that the rhythm player which probably helped.

vasselmeyer

I still have a Johnson JT50 amp and the indestructable pressed-steel floorboard. It's not worth anything if I sell it so I will use it if I  have to do a  gig in a dodgy venue or I need to be in and set up in 5 mins . It's odd because it can be very very loud indeed but somehow when it's in a band mix it just disappears. My valve amp  can always be heard.

PolarityMan

Just to throw the cat among the pigeons doesn't modelling refer to a aprticualr technique in producing digital amplification, that is creating software models of physical amps. I sure there were previous digital amplifiers but were they modellers?

paul_c2

PolarityMan said:

Just to throw the cat among the pigeons doesn't modelling refer to a aprticualr technique in producing digital amplification, that is creating software models of physical amps. I sure there were previous digital amplifiers but were they modellers?

Probably....but then since they all use some kind of software to shape the tone (because that's what differentiates a digital amp from a transistor amp), then what would they base it on, other than another amp?

monquixote

There is circuit modeling and profiling, but ultimately it's two routes to the same outcome.

Voxman

I hope the following is helpful:

The Line 6 AxSys was the very first guitar amp modeller and the first such modeller to be patented (17 January 1997): 
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5789689

Roland was the first company to launch a digital modelling product - the VG8 guitar modelling system in 1995.  It wasn't until 2000 and the launch of the replacement VG88 that guitar amp modelling was added.

The Johnson JT50 amplifiers used tube integrated modeling technology - NOT digital, and were launched in 1999. 

vasselmeyer

Voxman said:

The Johnson JT50 amplifiers used tube integrated modeling technology - NOT digital, and were launched in 1999. 

There are no valves in the JT50. Some of the Millenium amps had valves but not the JT50.

Voxman

vasselmeyer said:

Voxman said:

The Johnson JT50 amplifiers used tube integrated modeling technology - NOT digital, and were launched in 1999. 

There are no valves in the JT50. Some of the Millenium amps had valves but not the JT50.

You're absolutely right vasselmeyer- I think they were called V-Tube technology or something like that which threw me...it was a while ago now!

ICBM

Voxman said:

The Line 6 AxSys was the very first guitar amp modeller and the first such modeller to be patented (17 January 1997): 
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5789689

Roland was the first company to launch a digital modelling product - the VG8 guitar modelling system in 1995.  It wasn't until 2000 and the launch of the replacement VG88 that guitar amp modelling was added.

Sorry, that's wrong. Both the VG-8 and the GP-100 which also came out in 1995 have guitar amp modelling - the GP-100 was specifically that, and not the more complex guitar modelling which was also in the VG-8.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/695313/Roland-Gp-100.html?page=3#manual

Page 3 - "Main features: reproduces classic guitar amps". Check the copyright date at the bottom.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

The Line 6 AxSys was the very first guitar amp modeller and the first such modeller to be patented (17 January 1997): 
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5789689

Roland was the first company to launch a digital modelling product - the VG8 guitar modelling system in 1995.  It wasn't until 2000 and the launch of the replacement VG88 that guitar amp modelling was added.

Sorry, that's wrong. Both the VG-8 and the GP-100 which also came out in 1995 have guitar amp modelling - the GP-100 was specifically that, and not the more complex guitar modelling which was also in the VG-8.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/695313/Roland-Gp-100.html?page=3#manual

Page 3 - "Main features: reproduces classic guitar amps". Check the copyright date at the bottom.

Yup, I can see that the GP100 has amp modelling but re the VG8 I've just found a .pdf of the manual, and whilst it has effects, I can't immediately see any amp modelling listed? 

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/VG-8_OM.pdf

ICBM

Voxman said:

Yup, I can see that the GP100 has amp modelling but re the VG8 I've just found a .pdf of the manual, and whilst it has effects, I can't immediately see any amp modelling listed? 

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/VG-8_OM.pdf

Pages 64-70. You can be forgiven for not finding it, it's a huge manual!

This is I think one of the main reasons for what monquixote said - the Roland gear was perceived as being for geeks. By comparison you can pretty much just plug in a Pod and it's fairly intuitive to tweak from the start.

Voxman

ICBM said:

Voxman said:

Yup, I can see that the GP100 has amp modelling but re the VG8 I've just found a .pdf of the manual, and whilst it has effects, I can't immediately see any amp modelling listed? 

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/VG-8_OM.pdf

Pages 64-70. You can be forgiven for not finding it, it's a huge manual!

This is I think one of the main reasons for what monquixote said - the Roland gear was perceived as being for geeks. By comparison you can pretty much just plug in a Pod and it's fairly intuitive to tweak from the start.

It certainly looks like a complicated piece of kit to use - and as you rightly say, what a horrific manual!  

CHrisP86

I had pretty much got myself set on an AX8, then realised it has no headphone connection on it...

Helix or Amplifire then for me!

mellowsun

Please don't ask me to click on musicradar links, the spam and ads brings my phone or laptop to a standstill 

LooseMoose

As an aside...after spending more money than I care to disclose, I'm now gigging a Flextone 1 Duo and have had more compliments on my tone (sadly not my playing) than ever before.  Thing is, I bought it used and am sure that the presets are from the previous owner and they are AMAZING - if this thing ever loses it's memory, I'm screwed!

ICBM

LooseMoose said:

As an aside...after spending more money than I care to disclose, I'm now gigging a Flextone 1 Duo and have had more compliments on my tone (sadly not my playing) than ever before.  Thing is, I bought it used and am sure that the presets are from the previous owner and they are AMAZING - if this thing ever loses it's memory, I'm screwed!

It's worth going through it and writing down all the settings - it shouldn't take too long.

John_A

CHrisP86 said:

I had pretty much got myself set on an AX8, then realised it has no headphone connection on it...

Helix or Amplifire then for me!

The main outs will probably drive some decent sensitive headphones or a cheap headphone amp or audio interface would do the trick.   After saying that, I love my Helix!