Vintage Fender Deluxe Reverb Voltage conversion

WillEdmunds

I'm looking at an original 65 Deluxe Reverb on eBay. Very tempted by it! It has been converted to run at 230V. Is this a common mod and would it cause any issues for the amp? Sounds more convenient than lugging around a transformer, but people usually seem to run these old amps with one, rather than having them converted... Thought I'd see what the consensus was before I enquired into buying it. 
Thanks! 

Also, does £3.2K seem a fair price for it?

PS anyone want to buy my Carr Slant 6V!?

riscado

The angelmusic guys had one for sale recently, a 66 if I'm not mistaken.

RiftAmps

Does he say how the conversion was done? I assume a replacement PT was fitted as the USA market DRs only had a 117v primary (could be wrong but I've yet to come across a 125P23B TX with a multiple tap primary, the export amps had 125P33A).

If a replacement was fitted, ask if the original is still with the amp. Shouldn't cause any problems though, if it was done properly.

WillEdmunds

RiftAmps said:

Does he say how the conversion was done? I assume a replacement PT was fitted as the USA market DRs only had a 117v primary (could be wrong but I've yet to come across a 125P23B TX with a multiple tap primary, the export amps had 125P33A).

If a replacement was fitted, ask if the original is still with the amp. Shouldn't cause any problems though, if it was done properly.

Thanks for the info - I'll look into it.

ICBM

If it's been done properly it's better than an external stepdown transformer, because the export model transformer is designed to run at 50Hz rather than 60, so it will run cooler.

People don't like to do it because of 'originality' - and because it can be badly done if the right type of transformer isn't used, or by someone who doesn't know how to do it properly.

Unfortunately that applies to the one on Ebay - in fact it's actually dangerous, given that the primary transformer taps are exposed on the outside of it. Gaffer tape is also not a proper mounting material, which leads me to think the chassis has been hacked to fit it and hence it can't be put right even if you got the right transformer.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bqcAAOSw5cNYPFSr/s-l1600.jpg

I'd want more pictures, especially of the chassis from the inside, before I'd even consider it.

But it's ludicrously overpriced anyway, so don't bother…

RiftAmps

ICBM said:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bqcAAOSw5cNYPFSr/s-l1600.jpg

Oooof that's bad. I do love some bodge porn in the evening tho'.

Shame.

WillEdmunds

ICBM said:

If it's been done properly it's better than an external stepdown transformer, because the export model transformer is designed to run at 50Hz rather than 60, so it will run cooler.

People don't like to do it because of 'originality' - and because it can be badly done if the right type of transformer isn't used, or by someone who doesn't know how to do it properly.

Unfortunately that applies to the one on Ebay - in fact it's actually dangerous, given that the primary transformer taps are exposed on the outside of it. Gaffer tape is also not a proper mounting material, which leads me to think the chassis has been hacked to fit it and hence it can't be put right even if you got the right transformer.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bqcAAOSw5cNYPFSr/s-l1600.jpg

I'd want more pictures, especially of the chassis from the inside, before I'd even consider it.

But it's ludicrously overpriced anyway, so don't bother…

Thanks for the info mate. Glad I brought it up as I'm not so knowledgeable about the electrical stuff. I think I'll steer clear of this one then!

WillEdmunds

RiftAmps said:

ICBM said:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bqcAAOSw5cNYPFSr/s-l1600.jpg

Oooof that's bad. I do love some bodge porn in the evening tho'.

Shame.

It is a shame. Maybe I just need to get a Rift instead! You ever thought about making a handwired Deluxe Reverb head?

ICBM

Best to.

RiftAmps is right, it's a shame - sadly not unusual with a lot of old 'repair' work we and the other amp techs here will have seen. Back in the 60s/70s/80s, there was no concept of trying to keep something original, or even caring whether an amp had to be drastically hacked to fit whatever near-equivalent (electrically - not necessarily physically) transformer was to hand if someone needed to replace one.

You will often find in cases like this that the original cutout in the chassis has been crudely enlarged, and/or extra bolt holes drilled to mount the new (usually second hand) one across it. The base of the transformer being wrapped with tape looks to me like someone has tried to cover an ugly gap. The exposed primary terminals are really dangerous - all you have to do is put your hand up there when the amp is on and you'll get a direct shock from the mains. What's almost as worrying is that it appears to be wired to the 200V tap not the 220 or 240, which means the transformer will be running very hot, as will the valve filaments.

Given this I would want to see very detailed pictures of the chassis, inside and outside, before I would want to make any offer for the amp at all. There may well be other 'repair damage' inside too.

WillEdmunds

@ICBM Thank you - the info is much appreciated! A vintage DR is my dream amp but the responses on here have well and truly put me off this one.

Wazmeister

Mate, Id say your Slant IS the best vintage DR you can buy !!! Im sure @JohnPerry compared his old Slant with a vintage...

JohnPerry

Yes, had them side by side for months. I kept my old DR (a 1971 tweaked to blackface spec) in the end for sentimental reasons but the Slant's clean tone was identical, maybe a fraction nicer, and it is a better amp. I still love my old DR...but that price is utterly insane 

jpfamps

That's indeed a bodge, aka an "improvement".

Not withstanding the hazardous nature of the repair, it's quite possible that the voltages will not be correct either.

This will need sorting out, and as ICBM et al have commented above, they chassis may have been modified meaning it will require some jiggery pokery to get a repro mains transformer into the unit.

£3.2k is "optimistic". That's would, in my opinion, be all the money for a very good - mint BFDR.

For example there is a very good sounding 60's BFDR in Regent Sounds at £2500 with original transformers and 60's Jensen speaker. 

I'd say that amp is worth £1000 - 1200 tops, depending the extent of the "modification".

There are now plenty of suppliers of reproduction transformers that will fit into vintage Fenders with no modification to the chassis, so it's now possible to convert an BF Fender to UK voltage by swapping out the PT without irreversibly modifying the amp.

Gassage

Will, I have been watching that one.

£3200 is much too much.

£2500 tops- and then I'd want a JBL D120F in it for that money.

WillEdmunds

Wazmeister said:

Mate, Id say your Slant IS the best vintage DR you can buy !!! Im sure @JohnPerry compared his old Slant with a vintage...

Yeah you're probably right there. I have a Slant and a Rambler so am thinking of flipping one to get a bit more variety.  I don't use the lead channel on the Slant at all though so am looking for something single channel. It is also a bit of a beast to lug about, so I have also thought about getting it converted to a head and 2x12 cab (neo Creambacks), possibly by Zilla as they're local to me. Or getting a Morgan SW22R head, or Milkman head, or possibly a custom built Rift Deluxe 22 head... Argh GAS!

WillEdmunds

Gassage said:

Will, I have been watching that one.

£3200 is much too much.

£2500 tops- and then I'd want a JBL D120F in it for that money.

Thanks, good to know!

WillEdmunds

JohnPerry said:

Yes, had them side by side for months. I kept my old DR (a 1971 tweaked to blackface spec) in the end for sentimental reasons but the Slant's clean tone was identical, maybe a fraction nicer, and it is a better amp. I still love my old DR...but that price is utterly insane 

Yeah, it's kind of a mojo thing - I fancy a real vintage DR! Plus I have a Rambler too, so feeling like I have the Carr thing covered.

RiftAmps

Why not hunt down a vintage SF Deluxe Reverb? You can usually pick those things up for <£1500 and they sound great, plus have all the mojo that you could ask for whilst being bullet proof.

WillEdmunds

RiftAmps said:

Why not hunt down a vintage SF Deluxe Reverb? You can usually pick those things up for <£1500 and they sound great, plus have all the mojo that you could ask for whilst being bullet proof.

I've had a look at a few yes! This one seems like a better deal for a pre-CBS though eh: http://www.denmarkstreetonline.co.uk/product-details/1964-Fender-Deluxe-Reverb

DJH83004

I think you could do a lot worse than hunting down a '68 or '69 SF, drip-edge Deluxe Reverb, as RIftAmps says. I own one and I have to say tone and build quality wise IMHO there is isn't a lot to choose except a big difference in price tag!    

WillEdmunds

DJH83004 said:

I think you could do a lot worse than hunting down a '68 or '69 SF, drip-edge Deluxe Reverb, as RIftAmps says. I own one and I have to say tone and build quality wise IMHO there is isn't a lot to choose except a big difference in price tag!    

Yeah I'm inclined to agree. Maybe I should just stick with the Slant for now anyway. It does sound amazing!