Advice request on very basic alternate picking exercise

allen

Hi all,

I had a little go at doing a well known simple exercise of alternate picking as follows.

Start on Low E string. Finger 1,2,3,4 = F, F#,G,G#
A string. finger 1,2,3,4, etc.
Each one of those starting on a down stroke and then alternating and then down picking on next string.
Get to high E string, move up one fret i.e. at first move pinky/little finger up to A note of E string and then start alternate picking down the string, starting with an upstroke on the high A note. then on to b string etc....
Repeat all the way up the neck, going up and down.

(hope that all make sense, the question doesn't make sense without it)

My question is that when I arrive at the high or low E my pick is on the 'wrong' side of the string to start the next alternate pick. So I'm not sure which is the best way to learn the moves. Actually, on the high string I don't notice it much, but on the low E string I feel the slight stutter.

I think my hands are saying to actually do the low E string with an up stroke first, then alternate and then when moving to the A string restart the pattern with a downstroke first.

Ok, I might be overthinking it, but I don't want to do weeks/months practice and then find I've learned it 'wrong'

Any advice/thoughts?

LeeCassidy

You're definitely not overthinking this, as it's always worthwhile investigating how you pick. 

Two things come to mind. Firstly, the motion and mechanics of going from the low E to the A are the same those in going from the A to the D, so you shouldn't necessarily find one tougher than the other. Troy Grady has a very good investigation of the mechanics of picking and changing strings in his YouTube video series, Cracking The Code. Have a look at those, then take a look at where you're finding the problems, and see if it helps.

Secondly, it sounds like you're using a bit of economy picking for the first string change. Your last stroke on the low E will be a downstroke, and your first stroke on the A will also be a downstroke. So, are you 'sweeping' the pick across the E and A in one continuous motion there, or are you making two separate movements, which both just happen to be down? If it's the former, that's economy or sweeping, which is just as 'correct' as alternate, so it's not necessarily a problem (I mean, here you're saying you want to practise alternate picking, so it's probably best not to mix things up unknowingly). If it's the latter, I would recommend working on getting it in line with the others, so you can start with a downstroke on all strings, not just the higher five.

digitalkettle

Lee has got you covered...I'm only posting because I made a diagram

If you maintain strict alternate picking with an even number of notes per string, you don't trip up...chances are you're 'downward pick slanting' (see the Troy Grady stuff). Here's a take on your ascending exercise which stays nice and even:

http://i.imgur.com/t9mDxytl.png

allen

digitalkettle said:

Lee has got you covered...I'm only posting because I made a diagram

If you maintain strict alternate picking with an even number of notes per string, you don't trip up...chances are you're 'downward pick slanting' (see the Troy Grady stuff). Here's a take on your ascending exercise which stays nice and even:

http://i.imgur.com/t9mDxytl.png

Thanks. Your diagram is nice and clear. However, my exercise is slightly different. When I pick the a on fret 5 I should be picking upwards and then following the pattern up/down/up/down on each string as I work my way to low e string. So that's why my pick ends up on the wrong side of the string. Make sense? 

allen

Thank you very much for the advice. Comments below. 

LeeCassidy said:

You're definitely not overthinking this, as it's always worthwhile investigating how you pick. 

Two things come to mind. Firstly, the motion and mechanics of going from the low E to the A are the same those in going from the A to the D, so you shouldn't necessarily find one tougher than the other. Troy Grady has a very good investigation of the mechanics of picking and changing strings in his YouTube video series, Cracking The Code. Have a look at those, then take a look at where you're finding the problems, and see if it helps.

Have watched all of season 1 so I get the idea. LeeCassidy said:

.

Secondly, it sounds like you're using a bit of economy picking for the first string change. Your last stroke on the low E will be a downstroke, and your first stroke on the A will also be a downstroke. So, are you 'sweeping' the pick across the E and A in one continuous motion there, or are you making two separate movements, which both just happen to be down? If it's the former, that's economy or sweeping, which is just as 'correct' as alternate, so it's not necessarily a problem (I mean, here you're saying you want to practise alternate picking, so it's probably best not to mix things up unknowingly). If it's the latter, I would recommend working on getting it in line with the others, so you can start with a downstroke on all strings, not just the higher five.

Yes it seems I'm economy picking on the high e easily, but then getting muddled on the low e when the pick ends up below the e string (and probably below the a too) and then having to go up and down again to restart the sequence. 

By the way i'm fairly shite so really not going fast at all. 

ChrisMusic

It can also help to *really* simplify things.  Mute the strings with your left hand, so no fret fingering to think about, and just concentrate on the percussive sound of the picking.  Count it through (1,2,3,4 on each pattern across the strings).  I have used this to simplify, practice, and perfect the timing, on most picking patterns I have used.  Then you can re-introduce your left hand and get it all synced up.

As Lee said, it really helps to know which picking regime you are using at any time, stops you falling over your fingers IMO.  Then you can mix them up, depending on what you want to play and how you want it to sound, if you have it all mastered.  Or just choose what feels right for the occasion.  Just get it nailed as second nature first.

ChrisMusic

Oh, and I posted a variation on your alt picking exercise in a 2015 thread on "picking exercises".

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/688533/#Comment_688533

HTH  

ElectroDan

What you have discovered is a limitation of Downward Pick Slanting.
On a downward stroke the pick is below the plain of the strings making it more difficult to transition to a new string.
Play the pattern slowly and carefully observe the pick...
Down, Up, Down, Up  -   Where it is above the plain of the strings, making it easy to change to the next string. This is why the exercise is easy until that 5th note on the top E string... Now the pick is down below the outside plain of the E string and you need it below the B string ready for an Upstroke!
With 3 note per string exercises this will be worse again as this is one of the most difficult String Hops of the alternate picking technique. Lot's of practice will not change that fact, so what are the solutions?
1. You can arrange your licks to fit your Downward pick slanting (finishing on an upstroke before changing to a new string)
2. Add a legato note to give you time to correct the picking pattern
3. Embrace Two-way Pick Slanting
4. Use Economy Picking
I'd highly recommend buying Troy Grady's Pick Slanting Primer as he explains all of this with handy animations. It really is worth every penny. The ideal is to have all of the picking techniques available to you, and be sufficiently well practiced to blend them at will without having to think about it. This is something I've worked at for the last year and it has transformed my playing.
Good luck.