This might have been covered before, apologies if it was, but the recent thread on converting a Gibson LPJ to a LPS got me thinking. And wondering when does a Fender [or a Gibson, Epiphone etc.] become just a generic modified guitar. Take my Epiphone Les Paul for example. I changed the tuners, the strap buttons and fitted SD pickups, is it still an Epi LP or has it morphed into a partscaster LP? Fender guitars are very modifiable so how much needs to be changed on the guitar to render it no longer legitimate to carry the Fender name and logo? This question applies to all guitars of course and not just Fenders......
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I have a Fender which has very little left of the original guitar other than the neck (with the F-word on it ) and tuners and a few bits and pieces. It would probably be regarded as a partscaster - and therefore quite possibly devalued even though it is now a much better guitar than it originally was.
Not quite so simple... the difficult bit is that a Fender neck with a genuine logo is always a Fender neck - so the issue is, is it questionable/illegal to sell a Fender guitar which started off as a genuine Fender but everything has been replaced bar the neck - either at the same time or at different times? And if so, is that different to selling a partscaster with a Fender neck that was *never* a Fender guitar?
My opinion is that the neck itself can never be illegal because it is still a genuine Fender product regardless of what body it's attached to, but that you shouldn't sell a partscaster where the neck is the only original part as a Fender, however it was arrived at - even by a 'Trigger's Broom' process.
Other than that I would look at it as a proportion - if the neck and body are original, it's a Fender even if all the hardware has been changed. Equally if *just* the body has been changed, it's still a Fender. But that's just my opinion.
A further problem is that legally, a guitar assembled entirely from genuine Fender parts that were not once part of the same guitar is still not a 'Fender guitar'.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
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It makes more sense as to why this should be so if you think of someone buying loads of Fender replacement parts and building guitars out of them, then selling the results as 'Fenders'.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
It probably makes more sense just accepting it as an odd quirk arising from a fair attempt at drawing a legal line somewhere.
Not technically.
Yes.
How about "did the original one become a Fender again when Fender bought Charvel?"
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Another oddity is Elvis Costello's Jazzmaster - is it now a "60s Fender", after all the fingerboard was replaced in the 80s (complete with his name inlaid into it), the pickups have been rewound, its had at least one pickguard change, that awful paintjob (not my bag, Elvis... sorry) and now sports a Mastery bridge. Admittedly, the reissue they did was of the dowdy brown stripped finish though...
Some have said that Hendrix's white Strat from Woodstock was a bitsa - certainly, there are pictures of "another" white Strat from the same period sporting a rosewood board...
As mentioned above Leo designed the guitar to be modular and serviceable by replacing parts of the guitar. The whole point of a bolt on neck is to facilitate replacement (and cheap manufacture). So if something has been taken apart, repaired and put back together by someone other than Fender its a grey area, that would make nearly every pre-CBS guitar a non-Fender as accessing the truss rod is made easier by undoing the neck bolts....
Its bollocks really, isn't it? And there are lots of things that folks should be getting more worked up about than worrying about protecting someone else's copyright!
If you upgrade a cheap guitar like a squier or epiphone , and you can change every component and gold plate it and cover it in real diamonds ....it's still a Squier or Epi and you should be happy to take £50 for it
If you customise an expensive USA Fender or Gibson, even a custom shop model it also becomes a Squier or Epi and you should be happy to take £50 for it
Many guitars have a re-sale value. Some you'll never want to sell.
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Charvel also converted some old fenders and put their logo on them. Jake E Lee's white Charvel started out as a 70's hardtail sunburst strat. It has all new hardware, a little woodwork and a refinish, but was still the old fender body and neck at the core
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A lot of this stuff is daft, I know - but some of the things that people bring into the shop and try to sell as legit are quite funny, and we have to be careful to describe them correctly.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I think it's fair to say it's not a Fender any more.
But suppose I take two identical Strats, and take the necks off both, and then leave them in a room long enough to forget which neck came from which. Then when I put them back together, they may be Fenders or they may not, and nobody can tell.
They are Schrödingcasters.
But if you put the original body and neck back together and build it with other parts then it's a modded Fender IMHO.
I think the only legal obligation is to describe it accurately if you sell. Perhaps different if someone is punting many guitars as a commercial operation, but not for a private seller selling one guitar.
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/85299/provenance/p1
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