FX loop attenuator that will make a hot rod deluxe III usable at home ?

Telejester

I've had a hot rod III at home and found the clean channel totally unusable due to the huge volume increase so early on the control knob. I was reading about fx loop attenuators that apparently I could use with my pedals in the loop that claim to lower screaming amps down to bedroom practice levels that won't have the wife whinging. Any of these pedals successfully do this on an amp like a hot rod III or is it unachievable ? The drive channel sounds like cack on that amp but the nmv clean is a great pedal platform

NickL

A volume box or pedal in the fx loop is not really an attenuator, and you won't get power amp distortion at low volume with one, but they do help tame a twitchy volume pot. I use one at home with my Blues Deluxe, so not that different from your HRD.

If you're vaguely competent with a soldering iron and a drill it's easy enough to build one in a few minutes with less than £10 of parts - it's just a 100k logarithmic (audio taper) pot and two jack sockets in a box.

Alnico

I've got the Mike Landau Deville, it only does clean and it's mentally loud but not when it's on numbers 1-2. Then it's like any home amp would be and if you're on the clean channel there's no need to have the amp at any "Sweet Spot".
Our flat is 5m x 2m and it works fine here.

Have you tried fine adjustment on the volume control? Mine is quite sensitive but it's possible to get it just right.
There is a mod for the hot rods to replace the volume control with something less aggressive - Fromel is the company in the US or show the Fromel stuff to your local tech and have him do it for a lot less !

Also what speaker are you using? A decent speaker can have a dramatic effect on an amps useability. 

The volume box that was popular a couple of years ag is the EWS subtle volume control. They were around £50.

Or you could do this:

NickL said:

A volume box or pedal in the fx loop is not really an attenuator, and you won't get power amp distortion at low volume with one, but they do help tame a twitchy volume pot. I use one at home with my Blues Deluxe, so not that different from your HRD.

If you're vaguely competent with a soldering iron and a drill it's easy enough to build one in a few minutes with less than £10 of parts - it's just a 100k logarithmic (audio taper) pot and two jack sockets in a box.

Hope you work something out, the MK III is a really great amp.
Good luck.

Alnico

I've got the Mike Landau Deville, it only does clean and it's mentally loud but not when it's on numbers 1-2. Then it's like any home amp would be and if you're on the clean channel there's no need to have the amp at any "Sweet Spot".
Our flat is 5m x 2m and it works fine here.

Have you tried fine adjustment on the volume control? Mine is quite sensitive but it's possible to get it just right.
There is a mod for the hot rods to replace the volume control with something less aggressive - Fromel is the company in the US or show the Fromel stuff to your local tech and have him do it for a lot less !

Also what speaker are you using? A decent speaker can have a dramatic effect on an amps useability. 

The volume box that was popular a couple of years ag is the EWS subtle volume control. They were around £50.

Or you could do this:

NickL said:

A volume box or pedal in the fx loop is not really an attenuator, and you won't get power amp distortion at low volume with one, but they do help tame a twitchy volume pot. I use one at home with my Blues Deluxe, so not that different from your HRD.

If you're vaguely competent with a soldering iron and a drill it's easy enough to build one in a few minutes with less than £10 of parts - it's just a 100k logarithmic (audio taper) pot and two jack sockets in a box.

Hope you work something out, the MK III is a really great amp.
Good luck.

ICBM

Any passive volume pedal or a simple pot in a box with a couple of jacks - or even captive cables - will work.

If you're not able to make one yourself you can easily buy them online for a little more than the cost of the parts - like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Amplifier-Attenuator-Volume-Pedal-Passive-Volume-Amp-Reducer/141620893968?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40800&meid=8306de4be816474489d966b4e1b7a781&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=252712286090

That's quite a bargain, if you work out the parts cost and factor in the time to build it.

Once you can turn the master volume up a little further you may even come to like the overdrive channel .

Richardj

Does the potentiometer in these boxes affect the treble response like a guitar volume pot can?

That might be terrible English, sorry.

Octafish

Alnico said:

The volume box that was popular a couple of years ag is the EWS subtle volume control. They were around £50.

Wow, £50 for a volume pot, two jacks and a box, what a piss take!

Alnico

Octafish said:

Alnico said:

The volume box that was popular a couple of years ag is the EWS subtle volume control. They were around £50.

Wow, £50 for a volume pot, two jacks and a box, what a piss take!

The power of marketing.
For £20 more you can buy a GE-7 which will do the same job *and* give you a final EQ at the end of the signal chain for the effects loop.

My local Tech quoted me £25 inc labour to build me one. £10 parts and £15 Labour, which is his standing min rate anyway.

I think even I could build one of these.

clarkefan

Richardj said:

Does the potentiometer in these boxes affect the treble response like a guitar volume pot can?

That might be terrible English, sorry.

Great question.  Would the box benefit from a treble bleed cap? Thinking it might really need one if you're dropping the volume a lot?

ICBM

Richardj said:

Does the potentiometer in these boxes affect the treble response like a guitar volume pot can?

No - or at least not on a Fender Hotrod, because the loop is fully buffered. It would on something with an unbuffered loop like a Marshall Jubilee.

Alnico

ICBM said:

Richardj said:

Does the potentiometer in these boxes affect the treble response like a guitar volume pot can?

No - or at least not on a Fender Hotrod, because the loop is fully buffered. It would on something with an unbuffered loop like a Marshall Jubilee.

Thanks for that. I've been wondering whether or not to put a buffer in the FX loop on the Deville.

StefB

ICBM said:

Any passive volume pedal or a simple pot in a box with a couple of jacks - or even captive cables - will work.

If you're not able to make one yourself you can easily buy them online for a little more than the cost of the parts - like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guitar-Amplifier-Attenuator-Volume-Pedal-Passive-Volume-Amp-Reducer/141620893968?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40800&meid=8306de4be816474489d966b4e1b7a781&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=252712286090

That's quite a bargain, if you work out the parts cost and factor in the time to build it.

Once you can turn the master volume up a little further you may even come to like the overdrive channel .

I like the look of these.

One of the OP's questions though was whether such a device could used together with pedals in the effects loop - I too would be interested to know if is it safe to do that?

erky32

NickL said:

A volume box or pedal in the fx loop is not really an attenuator, and you won't get power amp distortion at low volume with one, but they do help tame a twitchy volume pot. I use one at home with my Blues Deluxe, so not that different from your HRD.

If you're vaguely competent with a soldering iron and a drill it's easy enough to build one in a few minutes with less than £10 of parts - it's just a 100k logarithmic (audio taper) pot and two jack sockets in a box.

I built exactly this a while back to use with the HR rather than a volume pedal so it neatly fits in the corner of my pedalboard, labelled it 1-10 and run it at 7 for start of gig, but it gets nudged up to 9 as the drummer gets excited. The nice thing is that in the loop it doesn't change the relative drive sounds at all between clean/crunch/drive ....and it doesnt take up much real estate or get in the way.

ICBM

StefB said:

One of the OP's questions though was whether such a device could used together with pedals in the effects loop - I too would be interested to know if is it safe to do that?

Yes. Since you'll only be putting modulation, delay or EQ-type pedals in the loop it should make no difference where in the chain it goes either, but for the lowest background noise you probably want the volume box last before the power amp in.

If you have a pedal in the loop which has low headroom and overdrives like that (eg an MXR Phase 90) it would be better to put the volume box first after the preamp out.

clarkefan

Exactly, this works, dropping the strength of the signal coming out of the loop send.

Only problem then is getting the level back up to go to the return.  So you either crank the amp's master volume, or use a boost of some type last in the chain in the loop.

Also, if you have a spare pedal with a volume control, or a spare volume pedal, then you don't need one of these boxes.

It's all so cack-handed though.  One device to drop the level plus another to boost it back up, stupid. Amp manufacturers need to get with the program, we want adjustable instrument level in loops, we want to use pedals in loops not rack units, it's not the 80s any more.

Sorry, fxxks me off.

ICBM

To be fair, the Fender Hotrod loop does work well with pedals as far as I can remember. It's not adjustable for level, but it's one of the much better loops out there - a simple series loop, properly buffered, virtually completely transparent and fully bypassed when there's nothing in the Power Amp In jack (although that's why they have to use those nasty brittle plastic jacks - the switching is separate from the signal path).

philrob1

I have a Twinkleator by Van Weelden for sale in the appropriate section that would solve your problem.