Les Paul - Modification Diary

nick_s

Have you ever felt like a football with a puncture?  Yes that was me today.  I strained my solution, added a strong (and I mean grow hairs on your eyeballs strong) tea solution to the board to prep, added the solution and it's a TINY bit darker.  Think a paint chart from Dulux, and go one step up on shade.  Proper stain it is then it seems.  I did take a video of the process, I need to finish it off and I'll upload for you to at least see the process.

I'll order the stain this week and get it done as soon as it arrives.

nick_s

Here's the before/after photo.  It's more of an 'aged' effect than anything, definitely nothing as spectacular as the WWGOA photos show

WezV

I suspect it's the granadillo working against you.  Possibly it's oil content, possibly the lack of tannins absorbed from the tea.

i keep meaning to do a few tests on different woods and I do have some granadillo here so I might give it a go too

nick_s

WezV said:

I suspect it's the granadillo working against you.  Possibly it's oil content, possibly the lack of tannins absorbed from the tea.

i keep meaning to do a few tests on different woods and I do have some granadillo here so I might give it a go too

I think you're right in that it is the board working against me.  I double coated with the tea to get extra tannin, and tested this on some pine and it went a lot darker than the granadillo, another thing pointing at the wood itself as opposed to the process.

I still have a load of India Ink I am sorely tempted to use, perhaps on the treble side of the side of the board...I have half an hour before I have to take the beef out to rest...decisions...

nick_s

Nomad said:

How deep does the iron acetate colour change go? Can it be fine sanded afterwards and still have the stain, or does it quickly get back to the original wood colour?

I tested on a piece of beech last night to ensure I wasn't going mad and that the solution worked (it does work, just not on granadillo), and it penetrated between 1 and 2mm into beech.

nick_s

OK, so I did try the India Ink on the fretboard sides, and it wasn't exactly a roaring success, it rubbed off pretty easily.  So, with that in mind, I took the plunge and ordered some Stunning Stains (pre-mix and the 'shot') in black from Crimson Guitars (along with the Fretboard Cleaner & Restorative set), should be here for the weekend, at which point I will record yet more video for that and HOPEFULLY  it will take to the wood.  I am going to prepare the wood by wire wool and naptha to give the stain a fighting chance of taking. 

In the meantime, I am processing the video of the fail steps...I might post it later to show how the iron acetate didn't work well enough.

EDIT - Here's the painfully bad video of the process with a bit of a 'here is how it should have worked' section at the end using the beech.

breakstuff

Bravo for giving it a go,but....

http://www.dealspwn.com/writer/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cigar-540x360.jpg

  

nick_s

breakstuff said:

Bravo for giving it a go,but....

http://www.dealspwn.com/writer/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cigar-540x360.jpg

  

Ha!  It wasn't even close to the cigar  Still, every day is a school day, I now know that granadillo isn't a good candidate for that process.  I am going to try several other woods (including a cheap and nasty rosewood board on a beater guitar I have kicking around) to get a good indication of what does and doesn't work.

Danielsguitars

What about just using an aniline die, I've used that on boards before then oiled over the top

WezV

Or even fiebings leather dye- used by many factories for darkening ebony.

whatever you use you will need to clean the board with thinners or naphtha first to get as close to raw wood as possible and you may need to seal it with finishing oil too.  I have never had to with fiebings but some report black fingers which I suspect it due to not getting it back to raw wood before applying.

I have a purple heart board i ebonised a few years back and it actually looks like really good dark rosewood now, but looked very artificial at first

nick_s

I did look at aniline dyes, but figured that they aren't quite as intense as the stuff Crimson offer, which is pigment based and covers very well from what I've seen.  Add to that I wanted some other bits from them, it made sense for me to order what I have

Add to that this peach of a description on their site as to the current state of the order:

"Your order has been printed off and is currently being put together ready for shipping, packaging time may vary as some tools may need to be made for you as some tools are made to order. Once we have all of the tools for your order it will be sent to our crack team of trained llamas to be wrapped in paper and crimson twine before being dispatched. We will let you know as soon as it has been shipped."

Made me smile

paulnb57

The Crimson dyes are water based so will need sealing, else they leach off onto skin.....ven after a couple of coats of their finishing oil the paer towel still came away with some dye.....its ok now though....

nick_s

paulnb57 said:

The Crimson dyes are water based so will need sealing, else they leach off onto skin.....ven after a couple of coats of their finishing oil the paer towel still came away with some dye.....its ok now though....

The 'shot' I've ordered can be diluted with solvent so will help there to some degree.  That said, I still plan on oiling after staining, when it eventually arrived (it's been three days in packaging so far).

paulnb57

Crimson are still in the 19th Century with order processing times.....

nick_s

paulnb57 said:

Crimson are still in the 19th Century with order processing times.....

So it seems.  The irritating thing is that they mention orders placed before 2pm are dispatched same day...I ordered Monday.  I've messaged them a few times and with some things they came back quickly, but not so much when I asked if I will receive my delivery before the weekend.  I do get they are a small operation, but order fulfilment is something that shouldn't be over looked, particularly given that they have my money.

olafgarten

nick_s said:

paulnb57 said:

Crimson are still in the 19th Century with order processing times.....

So it seems.  The irritating thing is that they mention orders placed before 2pm are dispatched same day...I ordered Monday.  I've messaged them a few times and with some things they came back quickly, but not so much when I asked if I will receive my delivery before the weekend.  I do get they are a small operation, but order fulfilment is something that shouldn't be over looked, particularly given that they have my money.

I've had shops tell me the same, if I order on Monday morning, they will tell me it's dispatched on Tuesday, which is a lie according to the tracking information sent on Thursday and it arrives the next Monday afternoon, when I've already left to catch my flight. Very annoying. 

paulnb57

I guess I have been spoiled by ebay sellers, who seem to dispatch really quickly, I've recieved things next day before, so when Crimson stuff takes over a week I get a bit miffed.....

nick_s

paulnb57 said:

I guess I have been spoiled by ebay sellers, who seem to dispatch really quickly, I've recieved things next day before, so when Crimson stuff takes over a week I get a bit miffed.....

True.  A colleague of mine suggested I order some from Amazon as he has Prime and I'd get it next day.

I spoke to a lady at Crimson today who advised and apologised that they are catching up on a deluge of orders (which is fine as it happens from time to time) and that my order is due out early next week.  As long as I know where things stand, I don't mind too much.

nick_s

Small update...two orders have been dispatched today that will aid in my quest of a dark fretboard:

1) Crimson Guitars (stains and fretboard restorative)
2) Northwest Guitars (clear nitro and strings)

Let's see who gets here first  Order 1 was ordered 8 days ago and is apparently on a Royal Mail 48hr delivery (for the princely sum of £8.34 whereas order 2 was ordered today and dispatched on a next day delivery for a whole £5.99!

With a bit of luck I'll get them both tomorrow, but I suspect Northwest's delivery will arrive first.

nick_s

OK, so tonight I had a while to dedicate to the start of the process.  I did as per the above post and prepared the board and went with 3 coats of water borne stain.  Now, that did darken the board, but I couldn't get anywhere near where I want to be.  Here's a few photos:

1st coat:



2nd coat:



Now, after three coats, I was not seeing much change, so I mixed up a strong (5 drops in 5ml IPA) mix of the Stunning Stain Shot and proceeded to coat the board again.  This yielded MUCH better results, you could see the stain bleeding into the wood nicely.  I have done a good coat of this and have left it to dry over night before attempting another coat in the morning:



As you can see, it's a drastic change.  I will add another coat of the alcohol based stain, and repeat until the colour is even, allow to dry, repaint the edges of the board in clear nitro, then use the Crimson Fretboard Restorative to help seal the board.

All in all I am one happy camper tonight.  Thank you Crimson Guitars for a fantastic set of products.