I thought this was really interesting and raised an eyebrow.

ThePrettyDamned

Fauxtique-brilliant. 

I was already aware of this, though didn't realise it was to this extent - technically it doesn't really matter, but I think part of the hype is how rare/new something is.

So this may be self defeating - lots of previously"boutique" (eurg) kit is now common. And sure enough, when enough (for example) fulltone or bognor kit hits the used market, the hype dies a bit. 

joeyowen

Man that german guy is a twat.  Lay off the e numbers

That aside, interesting indeed, thanks for sharing

Rowby1

Well that is really interesting. The presenter is annoying but that aside it removes some of the mojo/mystique of some of those brands I guess. 

Fauxtique.....I like that word. 

Moltisanti

look how far Friedman have come as a business in the last 5 or 6 years, i remember when they first made the "Marsha" because Dave Friedman was modding so many JMPs he thought screw it i'll do one form the ground up.

They made a conscious decision to go at it on a large(ish) scale, and it's certainly paying off.

It comes down to what your definition of Boutique is, but the fact is that if you want to sell on a large scale with high end gear you need a factory of a decent size. Suhr, Anderson, PRS (15 years ago) all have setups like this.

I think it's great that local California businesses are pooling resources and sourcing local materials - you still get a fully hand wound amp, tested by Dave Friedman himself. Their customer service is really good too.

Imagine if Thorpy, Martin W, Feline, Oil City all shared a warehouse and pooled costs and resources, emplying lots of UK folk, we'd love it!

edbolivar

Really enjoyed the video, and whilst I too find Henning slightly OTT, he does makes chuckle.
My biggest takeaway was that Synergy amps and modules are likely to go on my shopping list..

jpfamps

Manufacturing has been heading this way for ages. How many factories make hard drives?

It seems a good way of keeping jobs in the US whilst maintaining an economy of scale.

Ultimately if you buy an amp from a "one man band" operation you will be paying extra for the inefficiency of manufacture.

Do you really want to pay for someone to hand drill holes in a pedal effects box? 

At what point does it stop being "boutique" and start to be come "mass produced". When you out source the metalwork (should you be making your own enclosures)? Or PCB manufacture? Or PCB stuffing? Or assembly?

There are also a load of fixed costs associated with manufacturing electrical goods, eg approvals etc. 

Furthermore buying parts in bulk further reduces costs.

jpfamps

Teyeplayer said:

I think I'm most worried for the genuine boutique builders out there such as yourself @ThorpyFX. This video to my non-business mind seems to present intentionally misleading marketing. By putting 'boutique' in the company name mass production can ensue. I guess if nothing else it gives us a list of things to possibly not to buy, but it is hardly fair on the small guy in the long run, as inevitably when the problems that often occur with mass production kick in, other true boutique builders are likely to be tarred with the same brush thanks to the misuse of one word.

I think the phrase "boutique" is a bit like applying "professional" to gear. It usually isn't.

I've repaired tons of "boutique" pedals and the build quality ranges from the excellent to the truly shocking, with price no indicator of quality. In fact almost the reverse, a hand built rat's nest on vero board is the most inefficient and least consistent method of construction.

Two recent examples are a a boutique Univibe copy that was oscillating due to poor lead dress (shielded cable would have cured this problem) and a pedal where a component lead on the back of the PCB had pierced the hot melt glue holding the PCB in place and shorted the signal to the back of a pot. The former pedal retailed at £900 and the later at £170.

ThePrettyDamned

jpfamps said:

Teyeplayer said:

I think I'm most worried for the genuine boutique builders out there such as yourself @ThorpyFX. This video to my non-business mind seems to present intentionally misleading marketing. By putting 'boutique' in the company name mass production can ensue. I guess if nothing else it gives us a list of things to possibly not to buy, but it is hardly fair on the small guy in the long run, as inevitably when the problems that often occur with mass production kick in, other true boutique builders are likely to be tarred with the same brush thanks to the misuse of one word.

I think the phrase "boutique" is a bit like applying "professional" to gear. It usually isn't.

I've repaired tons of "boutique" pedals and the build quality ranges from the excellent to the truly shocking, with price no indicator of quality. In fact almost the reverse, a hand built rat's nest on vero board is the most inefficient and least consistent method of construction.

Two recent examples are a a boutique Univibe copy that was oscillating due to poor lead dress (shielded cable would have cured this problem) and a pedal where a component lead on the back of the PCB had pierced the hot melt glue holding the PCB in place and shorted the signal to the back of a pot. The former pedal retailed at £900 and the later at £170.

I can't stand the term, "boutique" used as it is in this industry as,to me, it implies something bespoke for the customer and very few companies offer this. 

In the UK we are lucky in that quite a few actually do! Sadly, people want resale value, which is largely dictated by magazines and the gear page.

DrJazzTap

Initially I was a bit cheesed off seeing that. As a consumer you'd think that you would be getting a distinct product. 

Something a bit weird about it, what's to entice you into getting one particular manufactuers product as apposed to its competitor? Particularly as they are made in the same production facility.

But I do understand it's probably beneficial to keep manufacturing costs down. 
Couldn't we do something like this in the UK though? It's always seemed bizarre to me that arguably one of the biggest new amplifier manufacturers is selling high end Marshall inspired models. Surely that's our bread and butter? 

jpfamps

DrJazzTap said:

 
Couldn't we do something like this in the UK though? 

You would be surprised how many UK amps have come out of one manufacturing facility........

ICBM

Very interesting. It certainly explains why so much of this 'boutique' stuff looks remarkably similar in detail, even if the overall styling can be different… almost as if it all came out of the same factory . I'd suspected something of the sort, although I thought it would be more like a lot of small companies using the same contract manufacturers for chassis, cabinets, PCBs etc - I didn't realise it was all one massive operation under the same roof.

It's also quite funny when you see this, given how much snobbery there is against "mass produced" equipment. All this gear is mass produced, even if the standard of workmanship and care is a bit higher than you'd find in the similar factories in China.

Adamski

I don't see much of a problem in this - if this is the way they can keep their manufacturing in the USA then I'm all for it. Dave Friedman was still there and he was still (literally) signing off on every amp. I'm sure Joe Morgan does the same. 

To me the design, the QC and the sound are the most important parts, not who's hands constructed it. 

I have a Pink Taco and it's fantastic. I'm also very interested in the Morgan AC20. My Bogner Shiva may have been made by Reinhold's bare ball sack but it's still of similar quality.....

chris45

I got an email a few days ago to say that Mark Bartel has left Tone King; he was the designer of all their amps to date.  He's setting up on his own  http://www.bartelamps.com.  I wish him well as my own experience of his products and his post sale customer service have been first class in my experience.

Jalapeno

Call that a raised eyebrow ?  This is (etc) 

FelineGuitars

As a small scale builder you want to be in control of all aspects of what you do , and farming work out to a third party - in this case the woodworking and tolexing may mean that you are at the back of the queue for that company and it is hard to get any control over what is happening. If you had the economy of scale you could afford some of the larger kit  required to do that work , but the best results (in anything I would add) are by people doing that same task day in and day out, rather than someone that gets to do it maybe just 10 times a year. So it kind of makes sense to pool together to have those aspects covered, even if you have separate circuit building sections for each brand, and even if it's the same guys assembling different amp makes with component choices made by that company  itself then I think that still works, and it may be that they can keep a lid on the rising price of parts by economy of scale and bulk buying

I know Dan from 65Amps and Bruce Egnater and I am glad to see them all combining to do the Synergy amp thing which is a reboot of the Egnater modular system that I have been stuck on for years

This has already happened in USA with a couple of guitar makers . Baker guitars, Fano etc were all part of Premier Builders Guild , but it didn't last.

I wish I had access to a Laser cutter, a CNC and milling centre , spraybooth of my own etc etc.
Maybe by combining with other luthiers and pooling resources it may be doable, but maybe it's harder with guitarmakers rather than amp makers as evidenced by PBG in the US.

It's hard to survive as a small boutique maker if surviving on fresh builds alone - I have mused on this before and seeing MJW decide to cal it a day (even if that that proves temporary) must show that . Being able to make it work with some economy of scale and keep the unique brand going has to be better than the brand disappearing altogether.

FelineGuitars

Moltisanti said:

look how far Friedman have come as a business in the last 5 or 6 years, i remember when they first made the "Marsha" because Dave Friedman was modding so many JMPs he thought screw it i'll do one form the ground up.


Imagine if Thorpy, Martin W, Feline, Oil City all shared a warehouse and pooled costs and resources, emplying lots of UK folk, we'd love it!

It would end in tears I fear based on the who ate the last Hobnob biscuit (I would be the guilty party unless Ash saw them first )


Dave Friedman used to work for Bruce Egnater I believe , so there is a strong bond between the two.