An venting my impotent rage about my HD500x

Danny1969

Leasky said:

Danny1969 said:

What exactly happens on the PC when you connect the device, ignoring what the HD does ? what happens on the PC driver wise ? does it detect the HD or does it just detect an unknown device on the USB bus ?

PC finds and talks to the device no problem using the 64bit Line 6 drivers (And recognises it for a HD500x). I use it as my main audio device and talk to it through my DAW using ASIO. No problems. Works great. Problem comes when I run HD edit and alter a patch or change patches. The HD Will reboot, my PC will tell me it's lost connection. The same thing happens when I change patches using the foot switches.

Believe me, it isn't the PC and if I plug it in and leave it alone, it functions as a sound device and ASIO device no problem. I can record guitar from it. Soon as I make a change in HD Edit or the device though.. boom.

Still some good suggestions here. I really like the unit (Had Pod XT Live before this and various other Line 6 thingies) so might get a local electrical shop to give it the once over.

No I didn't suspect the PC but what you have said tells me the 5V pin, ground and 2 serial pins are intact and working correctly so it's not the USB port on the device or the cable or the computer

Most likely fault is bad flash memory which is embedded and non serviceable without changing the chip.

One more thing though, have you tried a global reset, holding down left arrow while powering on ?

Richardj

You ask these guys for advice if Line6/Yamaha won't help.  They are really good.

Dave_Mc

Sporky said:

Leasky said:

Are they renowned for breaking?

They are amongst people who've had one that's broken.

Remember that almost no-one on the internet has dealt with a statistically significant sample, so you end up with 100%ers (ie the single unit they've had has has a fault) and 0%ers (ie they've not had a fault in the 1-3 units they've had) shouting about reliability.

Yeah pretty much.

That being said, sometimes you get enough of a sample to be warranted in being pretty wary- those biyang pedals I had, for example. I had 3. Sent back 2 as they were faulty (within the first week of ownership IIRC). One of the replacements was also faulty, out of the box. Then the original one which wasn't faulty died just outside warranty. And the other replacement's switch is a bit crackly.

Not thousands, obviously, but enough that I'd say I'm justified in saying, "I think they might have a bit of a reliability problem".

impmann

siremoon said:

The Line 6 Operations Manager Frank Richotte hangs out on TGP and has helped members there get Helix issues resolved when the service department has come up short.  Might be worth contacting him to see if he can help?  He's on LinkedIn too.

Frank is a great guy.

Voxman

Grumpyrocker said:

Fired up my HD500 yesterday as I often do every few months in the hope it won't be crap. I sold my M13 to buy the HD500 at launch, something I still regret.

The signal routing is mad in the HD500. It took ages to figure out. But at least now I know how to run a decent signal path in it. 

But the thing that had me unplugging the damn thing within minutes is the horrible fizziness - like crisp packets being screwed up - that every amp model has with a bit of gain. God it's awful. 

When I put one through it's paces I also found it be quite noisy on certain higher gain amp models, even with the noise-reduction on.  

Voxman

impmann said:

Ok a few things... there is no customer support in the U.K. for Line6 any more. That was the reason I was made redundant!! It's all handled in Germany by Yamaha.

That is worrying, especially if anyone buys a £1300 Helix in the UK (btw, really sorry about your redundancy - happened to me 5 times in my working life, so I empathise!)! That's put me on 'alert' as I might be a prospective customer later this year, so I'm going to dig around a bit to try & clarify exactly what customer service is offered by Line 6 in the UK, and how one gets it.

 Re your comment on Sale of Goods Act, I don't think anyone has referred to that - the link I posted related to the 2015 Consumer Rights Act which replaced it.

 Re your comment "you'd need to prove to the retailer not manufacturer that the fault was there at purchase and your use of the unit did not contribute to its failure. Good luck on that ".

For more expensive items particularly there is still the presumption that an item must be fit for purpose and the customer has the right to expect a reasonable serviceable life-span. The length of this depends on the item type, usage, & cost.  But clearly you don't expect a (then) top of the range MFX unit to last only a year before failing!  If the retailer wants to use 'customer abuse' as a defence, they would need to evidence that upon examination of the unit. Otherwise, and this depends on the item, facts of the case etc, a pre-existing inherent fault can still be assumed under 'fit for purpose' whereby an item fails well within what is reasonably considered to be its effective life, and there is no evidence of customer abuse (otherwise, why would it fail!? - it is usually a case of 'the facts speak for themselves' ie failure within too short a reasonable time evidences a fault that was there at time of purchase but that did not become apparent until a later date).

Voxman

On the point about Line 6 UK customer service, my understanding is that there are still authorised Line 6 service centres in the UK.  For example, the Line 6 website shows the nearest one for London as being:

E & M Electronics
10 Peverel Drive, Granby 
Milton Keynes, MK1 1NL
+441908375699
line6@eandm.co

impmann

Voxman said:

impmann said:

Ok a few things... there is no customer support in the U.K. for Line6 any more. That was the reason I was made redundant!! It's all handled in Germany by Yamaha.

That is worrying, especially if anyone buys a £1300 Helix in the UK (btw, really sorry about your redundancy - happened to me 5 times in my working life, so I empathise!)! That's put me on 'alert' as I might be a prospective customer later this year, so I'm going to dig around a bit to try & clarify exactly what customer service is offered by Line 6 in the UK, and how one gets it.

 Re your comment on Sale of Goods Act, I don't think anyone has referred to that - the link I posted related to the 2015 Consumer Rights Act which replaced it.

 Re your comment "you'd need to prove to the retailer not manufacturer that the fault was there at purchase and your use of the unit did not contribute to its failure. Good luck on that ".

For more expensive items particularly there is still a presumption that an item must be fit for purpose should expect to have a reasonable life-span. You don't spent £1300 on a Helix and expect it to only last a year before failing!  If the retailer wants to use 'customer abuse' as a defence, they would need to evidence that upon examination of the unit. Otherwise, and this depends on the item, facts of the case etc, a pre-existing inherent fault can still be assumed under 'fit for purpose' whereby an item fails well within what is reasonably considered to be its effective life, and there is no evidence of customer abuse (otherwise, why would it fail!? - it is usually a case of 'the facts speak for themselves' ie failure within too short a reasonable time evidences a fault that was there at time of purchase but not become apparent til a later date).

True but having seen a few try that route, I wish anyone good luck. A retailer may cave on it because of the aggro factor - however the onus of proof is with the customer that the fault is not as a result of reasonable wear and tear, abuse or in the case of this, plugging the unit into a third party computer (and unplugging - flash can be corrupted by interruptions...). And that can end up being protracted and costly - it's not a great system, TBH and it's in no way assured.

Like I say, I can't speak for the Yamaha setup but I would have offered a compromise, depending on the length of time out of warranty and on an individual basis.

Id advise the OP to write a complaint email.

just to clarify there is support for Uk customers. The offices/phones are in Germany and there is a service centre in the U.K. run by a third party.

Leasky

Danny1969 said:

Leasky said:

Danny1969 said:

What exactly happens on the PC when you connect the device, ignoring what the HD does ? what happens on the PC driver wise ? does it detect the HD or does it just detect an unknown device on the USB bus ?

PC finds and talks to the device no problem using the 64bit Line 6 drivers (And recognises it for a HD500x). I use it as my main audio device and talk to it through my DAW using ASIO. No problems. Works great. Problem comes when I run HD edit and alter a patch or change patches. The HD Will reboot, my PC will tell me it's lost connection. The same thing happens when I change patches using the foot switches.

Believe me, it isn't the PC and if I plug it in and leave it alone, it functions as a sound device and ASIO device no problem. I can record guitar from it. Soon as I make a change in HD Edit or the device though.. boom.

Still some good suggestions here. I really like the unit (Had Pod XT Live before this and various other Line 6 thingies) so might get a local electrical shop to give it the once over.

No I didn't suspect the PC but what you have said tells me the 5V pin, ground and 2 serial pins are intact and working correctly so it's not the USB port on the device or the cable or the computer

Most likely fault is bad flash memory which is embedded and non serviceable without changing the chip.

One more thing though, have you tried a global reset, holding down left arrow while powering on ?

Cheers Danny, tried the global reset a bunch of times and many different versions of the flash (including the USB flash) with no luck. Suspect it's well broken.