Do guitarists still view buying a solid state amp as something best avoided ?

Telejester

The Roland blues cube in a blind test with many tube amps would tough to pick out but something in my head just won't let me go there. I tried a Mustang III last week and thought it was grim as it sounded nothing like nothing even hinting at tubes......But that blues cube has piqued my curiosity. Are guitarists still stuck in a it must be tubes and nothing else mindset ?

ICBM

Telejester said:

Are guitarists still stuck in a it must be tubes and nothing else mindset ?

Yes.

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

Telejester said:

Are guitarists still stuck in a it must be tubes and nothing else mindset ?

Yes.

And it's a vicious circle. 

Solid state amps are rubbish compared to tubes say guitarists

Nobody is buying solid state amps so we won't bother investing in their development say manufacturers

It's not like they couldn't - bass amps are massively innovative esp with class D power amps, but hey, bass doesn't require much in the way of good tone does it? It's just thump thump after all...  hmmmm

Bridgehouse

In fact, I'm just waiting for someone to table an all-valve digital modeller.... *sigh*

Strangefan

I have no issues with trannies (lol)  I have used a hh performer since 2002 I changed the speaker to a Jenson  and its a brilliant sounding amp with great drives and lovely reverb. I have no desire to change amps. 

ICBM

Bridgehouse said:

In fact, I'm just waiting for someone to table an all-valve digital modeller.... *sigh*

It could theoretically be done, but it would need a building about the size of the Pentagon and a small power station to run it, and it wouldn't work for more than a few minutes at a time probably. And it would sound exactly the same as a solid-state one.


What's crazy is that it's now 70 years since the transistor was invented, and it was only 40 years from the triode valve to the transistor. It's as if airlines were still buying piston-engined propellor planes instead of jets. I'd admit that a Rolls-Royce Merlin sounds like nothing else, but even so...

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

Bridgehouse said:

In fact, I'm just waiting for someone to table an all-valve digital modeller.... *sigh*

It could theoretically be done, but it would need a building about the size of the Pentagon and a small power station to run it, and it wouldn't work for more than a few minutes at a time probably. And it would sound exactly the same as a solid-state one.


What's crazy is that it's now 70 years since the transistor was invented, and it was only 40 years from the triode valve to the transistor. It's as if airlines were still buying piston-engined propellor planes instead of jets. I'd admit that a Rolls-Royce Merlin sounds like nothing else, but even so...

Yeah - hence my sigh. I get it - I really do, when it comes to valve tones. But it just feels like there's such a reluctance to even entertain an alternative.

I mean, if we translated this thinking into music then we'd see thousands of 70's classic rock tribute bands on at pubs week in week out instead of new, innovative music...



Oh, wait...

ennspek

I like solid state stuff myself.

StanleyAccrington

I'm currently playing through a 'Kustom' 20 watt solid state amp. It's  the only amp I've  ever played through apart from the ones that I'm hooked up to when trying out guitars in shops. My limited technique seems to sound better on the valve amps that I get to use in the shops. Thinking about it, the overdrive and reverb on the Kustom sounds pretty crap. ...but I  don't know if it's the amp per se or that it needs an overhaul/service. I got it second hand so it could be 30 years old.

ESBlonde

As we age the lure of a nice tranny has advantages!!!

Some produce decent enough sounds, the player is a big factor much of the time. I've heard a sessionette with a strat that sang in a 3 piece pub band, I've heard Hand made guitars sound painful through the most expensive booteek valve combo of the moment.

I've gone away from big cabinets myself, current favourite is a 1x10" celestion I knocked up just for rehearsal use with a Tiny terror years ago which I can swing with one hand. But i still drag a 50w valve marshall head to drive it. OK these days It's often Mic'd so not pushed to '11' but good tone is good tone.

I struggle with many of the digital emulation amps, they sound OK for a while but after 20+ mins the irritation to my ears builds up. Like many amps our own taste will play a part, I quite liked the Roland Cube I tried some years ago at a Jam, but I borrowed one (a 60w?) Tuesday evening for a small rehearsal and was unimpressed, fickle I may be. I didn't get the digital hash/irritation sensation but it just didn't impress me no matter how much knob twiddling I managed to put into it.

If you can find an amp that suits you and your style, the manufacturer and architecture is pretty secondary imho. Knowing how to optimise your equipment is the key. I can't make Line 6 combos sound half decent though....

richardhomer

Probably one for the recent 'Guitarists' conservatism' thread. If PRS struggle for acceptance because their guitars weren't on (or even existed) when most of the 'benchmark' guitar performances were recorded, it's no surprise that alternative amp technologies get overlooked as well.

And it's not just technologies; it's brands as well. Used Princetons and Deluxe Reverbs seem to get snapped up at decent prices in the classifieds - yet many 'boutique' amps (Bad Cats and Tone Kings in particular it seems) stick around forever - often at (proportionate to their new cost) bargain-basement prices.

Sassafras

You often hear valve enthusiast talking about how much better the dynamics are than solid state amps- just before they switch to the high gain channel and hit it with 5 different distortion boxes and 2 separate compressors.

ecc83

I have long suspected that deep in the bowels of Peavey or some other big amp manufacturer there lurks a "Cost No Object" transistorized amp. This would be unlike any tranny amp thus seen (AFAIK?) in that it would sport a chunky output transformer and possibly a driver traff* driven from a nicely warm 2N3055 power transistor in class A. The OP stage would be 4X2N3055s and the rating just 50W and since the total transistor capability would be in excess of 450W simple fuse protection is all it would need and not the tone destroying VI limiting found in early hi fi designs.

See, THAT is the biggest problem for a sstate guitar amp, it WILL get overdriven and it must handle that without sounding vile.

We have never seen such a  SS amp because of course it would cost almost as much as a basic 100W valve jobbie to produce and the market was simply never there and post war especially, valve were cheap (still are) whereas power transistors were expensive and viewed as fragile.

*I have a TUAC 50watt head holding up yet more junk in my spare bedroom. Free to any experimenter that want to collect it! Uses just such a class A driver.

There is of course the Quad 50E which has a (very, very good) output transformer. At one time I thought about finding one cheap on The Bay and having a play?

Dave.

vasselmeyer

There ARE solid state replacements for preamp  valves. The most common ones being AMT and Jet City. I can't hear much difference on the  clips I've heard. It's be interested in  whetehr they ever manage to develop any replacements for the power amp section.

Here are AMT's 12AX7 replacements
Here are Jet City;s "Retrovalves"

jellyroll

The attraction in valve amps is that intoxicating risk of combustion that you just don't get with solid state.

Alnico

No.
I did own and would own again a Fender Studio 50w combo from the Paul Rivera years. It used to belong to @IanSavage whom i bought it from and then sold it back to, i don't know if he still has it ?
My amp broke one night and i used this with only tuner pedal and my Telecaster. It was the aftershow party in Feb 2015 in Birmingham and there's maybe a few who remember (parts of) that night, it sounded amazing.

I would own any one of those Fender-Rivera SS amps again.

I also think that if it's Mic'd up, a Marshall Lead 12 is one of the best sounds i've heard.

Vox Pathfinder 15R was another unbelievably good, understated amp.

I can't think of any new ones i would want, they all seem a bit sterile but i heard and felt character in the ones i mentioned above and *those* kind of SS amps are the one's i'd have any day.

There's probably more i've forgotten over the years.

Ah,....................Peavey Bandit, the early one. How could i forget that one ?

impmann

I like SS amps... I gigged Sessionettes for years. I've gone over to the dark side (or is it the glowing side) in recent times but I still have massive respect for a good SS amp (@ICBM don't say it, chap, I know what you are thinking... ;-) )

I've just sold an HH amp - the guy who bought it already owns one, but wanted a back up. He plays post-punk stuff... so its a perfect match.

The old Peavey Bandits are fab - built like tanks, can survive *masses* of abuse and sound great, especially the Transtube ones.

Alnico said:

I also think that if it's Mic'd up, a Marshall Lead 12 is one of the best sounds i've heard.

I agree... I have one for sale, if you fancy it. :-)

Voxman

Amps are tools, pure and simple, and different types of amp are good at different things.  At one time or other I've either owned or played most of the more well known amps around encompassing valve, pure SS, and modelling (comes from just being an oldie!).

I currently have 3 valve amps (DSL401, Laney Cub 12R and VC30-210) and two hybrid, Valvetronix AD120VTX and Marshall 8080 Mk1.  The Valvetronix has 2 12AX7 valves, essentially in the power-section. The Valvestate has a 12AX7 to warm up the gain channel.  

Each one has its charms and downsides, and I use different amps for different things.  Nowadays they mostly stay at home anyway because I'm currently rehearsing and gigging with a Tonelab SE (either through the rehearsal room amp, or PA) which sounds great & solves a lot of problems.   

So, I'm open minded and although I grew up with valve amps I certainly  don't have a 'valve only' mindset.  The problem with 'pure' (ie non modelling) solid-state is that the development of modelling (& now profiling) amps has pretty much dissuaded any development of pure SS due to research & production costs.  But in theory, there's no reason why a pure SS amp can't sound, feel & respond like a valve amp, and had it not been for amp modelling technology, I'm convinced that pure SS amp development would have advanced.  

There had already been significant progress towards this.  Perhaps most successfully (in terms of result, albeit sadly not commercial success) was the Blue Tone Pro 30M, one of which Pete Townshend has (and safe to say I think, he knows a thing or two about good tone!).  This amp was essentially a (very, very good) attempt to reproduce the tone, feel & response of a vintage Marshall valve amp.  Have a read here:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/blue-tone-pro-30m/18830

vasselmeyer

Alnico said:

I did own and would own again a Fender Studio 50w combo from the Paul Rivera years. It used to belong to @IanSavage whom i bought it from and then sold it back to, i don't know if he still has it ?
My amp broke one night and i used this with only tuner pedal and my Telecaster. It was the aftershow party in Feb 2015 in Birmingham and there's maybe a few who remember (parts of) that night, it sounded amazing.

I remember that amp. You plugged in and hit a big chord and everyone went "Wow! What the hell is that?". I would definitely have one.

Alnico

impmann said:

I like SS amps... I gigged Sessionettes for years. I've gone over to the dark side (or is it the glowing side) in recent times but I still have massive respect for a good SS amp (@ICBM don't say it, chap, I know what you are thinking... ;-) )

I've just sold an HH amp - the guy who bought it already owns one, but wanted a back up. He plays post-punk stuff... so its a perfect match.

The old Peavey Bandits are fab - built like tanks, can survive *masses* of abuse and sound great, especially the Transtube ones.

Alnico said:

I also think that if it's Mic'd up, a Marshall Lead 12 is one of the best sounds i've heard.

I agree... I have one for sale, if you fancy it. :-)

You don't by any chance fancy an acoustic guitar do you?
Link is in the sig if you want to PM me and work something out?
No problem if you don't.

I had Marshall lead 12 when i was 14 ish.
Awwwwwwwww.

Alnico

vasselmeyer said:

Alnico said:

I did own and would own again a Fender Studio 50w combo from the Paul Rivera years. It used to belong to @IanSavage whom i bought it from and then sold it back to, i don't know if he still has it ?
My amp broke one night and i used this with only tuner pedal and my Telecaster. It was the aftershow party in Feb 2015 in Birmingham and there's maybe a few who remember (parts of) that night, it sounded amazing.

I remember that amp. You plugged in and hit a big chord and everyone went "Wow! What the hell is that?". I would definitely have one.

Should'a kept it,.....yet again !