Is anyone here a car salesman?

paulnb57

Just traded our "decent" car in for a new one at the local Ford main dealer........
Out of interest when the salesman has to go, somehwere out of sight, to get a trade in price and verify the "best deal" with the manager, is this what really happens? I gotta say it would really piss me of to be a salesman that couldn't be trusted to do the whole deal. Once upon a year the single slaesman did the whole thing, checked the Glass's guide for the trade price and agreed the deal, phoned his mate in the trade for a price if it was a cheapy, nowadays you can't get anything done without the salesman traipsing off out of sight to check and see if it can be done......

In the past a  new car used to have a full tank, complimentary mats, perhaps a bouquet of flowers for the pink one, now you need to haggle like hell for anything, are margins really that tight?

randella

It's a technique called "deferring to a higher authority". He's not doing anything while he's out of the room but if you come back to him and say the deal's not good enough, he can simply say "boss says no" giving you no more room to manuever. 

I could be wrong of course, I'd be interested to know if what I'm led to believe is true

randella

Also - it used to be the case that the official Ford price list was the greatest work of fiction since the New Testament, but the stories I hear of friends buying new motors generally tally with yours. No big discounts any more it would seem. 

Again, would be interesting to get an angle from the trade. 

Wazmeister

Margins are tight yes, and its the Sales Manager who prices a car... so, the act of referring to the SM is normal.

Dealers can literally lose 1000s on wrongly valued cars...

doogz84

My mate is a car salesman for Arnie.

Sometimes he's through the back checking it over with the boss, sometimes he's through the back grabbing a quick drink or having a skive. Most of the time he knows what the manager will say, so sometimes he doesn't even bother asking, but he'll want you to think that he is, especially if he's going to come back and say no.

randella

So I was half-right at least good to learn these things. 

@doogz84 @Wazmeister  Are things as tight on the Approved Used stuff? The only reason I ask is that I hate haggling, but equally hate the nagging suspicion that I've let a deal go - it's a bastard conundrum! Just wondering where to pitch it really. 

DrJazzTap

I was going to buy a book about this. It's kind of an American thing. I think the intention is to give you the impression that he/she is trying to get you the best deal possible, that they are really trying for you.
Try to make you feel guilt ridden that the salesperson is trying his or her best for you. Although the car market can change weekly. Official trade valuations for the upcoming month are sometimes released a week before the end of the month. And the fleet industry uses two main valuation systems CAP (car auction price) and glasses guide.

So they may need time to digest the new valuations. CAP is more for the fleet side of things and glasses guide is the little book usually used by car traders. You can sometimes have variances of up to £750-1000 between the two systems.

You could argue that CAP is more accurate as it's based on auction results (but that can include closed market auctions so yeah). CAP is an electronic valuation system and glasses is the book. Glasses did have an electronic system but from what I remember it was a bit shit.
 The main thing I would say is make sure you've been given a valuation for your exact model. Ask them to provide you a screen shot from CAP and a copy of the page from glasses guide with a breakdown of how they got to the valuation (it has mileage tables in the back iirc). They could be just giving you for example a valuation for a Vw golf sdi instead of Gt150tdi which is a drastically different car!

Margins are very tight, but the flipside is so is the market so you deserve to get the best price for your car.  Just don't expect to get the second hand price from autotrader. Dont be afraid to walk and don't get sucked into the mate bollocks it's a deal at the end of the day. 

My father traded his Ford kuga for a Volvo xc90 a few years ago at a large car supermarket. The salesman "had" to go back three times I think, because they were lowballing him on the trade valuation.  After the second price which was £250 shy,  my dad said very politely "okay well it's been a pleasure but im going to have to go" the salesman acting all concerned said "this is silly you're going to walk for £250?...hang on" off again to get approval. After forty five minutes they agreed to the px price. He paid £20k  and they just gave him the keys. The car had no fuel and he was dropped like a stone. They aren't your friends. I'm not having a go. I worked with them for 12 years it's just sales.

boogieman

paulnb57 said:

Just traded our "decent" car in for a new one at the local Ford main dealer........
Out of interest when the salesman has to go, somehwere out of sight, to get a trade in price and verify the "best deal" with the manager, is this what really happens? I gotta say it would really piss me of to be a salesman that couldn't be trusted to do the whole deal. Once upon a year the single slaesman did the whole thing, checked the Glass's guide for the trade price and agreed the deal, phoned his mate in the trade for a price if it was a cheapy, nowadays you can't get anything done without the salesman traipsing off out of sight to check and see if it can be done......

In the past a  new car used to have a full tank, complimentary mats, perhaps a bouquet of flowers for the pink one, now you need to haggle like hell for anything, are margins really that tight?

It is always worth asking for a few extras if they won't shift much on price. When we bought our Jag (used) they would only drop the ticket price by £400 but they did agree to stumping up for a year's road tax and a tank full of diesel, probably worth another £250. The salesman was a decent guy and didn't pull any bullshit, the biggest pain in the arse was then having to talk to the finance guy, even though we had no px and we were paying cash. 30 solid minutes of saying no over and over again to various finance options, extended warranty, wheel insurance, MOT insurance, special paint coating blah blah. 

Wazmeister

The fact is there is no way a salesman could be allowed to value a px; he would naturally rate it high in order to get the deal !

CAP is primarily used for a car that cant be sold at that dealership, or one in group. If it has to go to Auction/trade, CAP would be used.

Glass' would be a 'guide' to saleable cars; it is just a guide though, and a sales managers instinct is involved too. 

Its not a conspiracy either; I worked for some years with professional, thorough sales people. We didnt try to have the customer over - there is no need to if you do the job right, and the product is right.

Moe_Zambeek

Just avoid the big chains and go to dealers who employ functioning humans who don't treat their customers like idiots from the 90s and before. 

Many years ago I went in to Evans Halshaw after having been in at a BMW dealer. The EH guy printed off his 'book value' thing from CAP or glass or whoever and said that's all he could do, industry standard pricing, no one would beat that etc.  When I presented him with the exact same printout the BMW place had given me half an hour before, on which the values were about a grand higher, he started shouting at me and suggesting as he'd printed it off, I was honour bound to accept their offer. I'm sure that bullying technique worked on some but any company that works on that basis deserves to go bust.

Foster

If a salesman does anything that you don't like (such as continuously offering you finance, going off to "talk" to the boss, etc) then tell them in no uncertain words that if he carries on you're going to have a very loud worth with the top dog in front of ALL the other customers as to why you came in to buy a car but are now leaving to look elsewhere because his salesman is a complete arse.

How a car dealership acts when trying to sell a vehicle is a rough idea of how they'll treat you if you need repairs, etc. If they're utterly useless at selling a car then expect them to be more than useless when it comes to services.

mike_l

I've worked with a lot of salesmen over the years. There's a total of 2 who I'd trust to do me a good deal.... Funnily, both women. (I'd trust them because I know they're good and honest, not because they're women).

There's a lot who I'd happily punch in the mouth.. Most are totally disorganised and cannot wipe their own arse without someone having to clear up their shit afterwards.

randella

@Wazmeister you'd think that, wouldn't you? There's a VW dealer near me. A colleague was telling me she wanted a replacement for her ageing Astra and had always wanted a Golf. Her husband told her to stop messing around,  give the dealer a ring and go and buy one. The dealer told her they were having an exclusive member event and she wasn't welcome, so she went and bought another Astra. Another time a friend of mine was luckier and actually managed to get inside the doors, but said the salesman was so unbearably fucking rude she walked out, straight to the Honda dealership and bought a Civic Type R instead (what a car that was let me tell you). 

So that's probably £40k lost across two occasions in 20 minutes. Some of them just don't help themselves. 

randella

I should add that on these occasions, both the Vauxhall and Honda dealers were apparently flawless in service, so I guess it really does pay. 

Wazmeister

randella said:

@Wazmeister you'd think that, wouldn't you? 

No mate, "I wouldn't just think that..." 

I haven't been involved in the 'trade' for some years - Im just trying to give you all another angle from someone who worked for many years in such sales environments...

And yes, some sales people/dealers are poor and shoddy - just as in any environment.

But, a salesman wouldn't just go to ask his boss as part of some act. Time, life, customers and money should be too scarce

You asked for another interesting angle, and I've just offered it that's all mate.

randella

Wazmeister said:

randella said:

@Wazmeister you'd think that, wouldn't you? 

No mate, "I wouldn't just think that..." 

I haven't been involved in the 'trade' for some years - Im just trying to give you all another angle from someone who worked for many years in such sales environments...

And yes, some sales people/dealers are poor and shoddy - just as in any environment.

But, a salesman wouldn't just go to ask his boss as part of some act. Time, life, customers and money should be too scarce

You asked for another interesting angle, and I've just offered it that's all mate.

@Wazmeister ;  Not sure why you're getting angry with me - I appreciated your input. I wasn't disagreeing with you as re checking with manager either. You've got the wrong end of the stick I think - I was simply agreeing with you, by saying how if you don't treat people right you don't sell. I also gave two examples of where people were treated right, for balance.

Also, while I'm about it, I was half-right. I was wrong that the salesman wasn't checking, but right that it is in his interest when negotiating that he's deferred to another authority. 

In fact, I'll give you another one. The Honda dealer I bought my car from - light touch, bit of chit-chat, made me a cup of tea even. That's how to sell a car. 

It stands to reason that there are bad 'uns in every trade, my own is rife with it although it's getting better. 

Not after a punch-up I can assure you. Not my style bud. 

Wazmeister

Hey mate, Im not getting angry ! Apologies if it read that way...

You are totally correct; "if you dont treat people right you dont sell..."

No offence taken or meant mate.

randella

Wazmeister said:

Hey mate, Im not getting angry ! Apologies if it read that way...

You are totally correct; "if you dont treat people right you dont sell..."

No offence taken or meant mate.

No dramas, got you - we're good! I like this place, don't like to think that I'm winding folk up!

Anyway, the worst bit about buying a car has to be all the bloody advice you get off people you talk to about it. Usually afterwards. "You didn't get metallic paint and a trip to the Seychelles thrown in? Ah well..."

vasselmeyer

Get a fucking room, you two.

DanR

I've had the joys of working in the trade for over 12 years via two large PLC's and over four different brands.

The going back and forwards should be kept to a minimum ideally only once.

First presentation must include finance and all insurance products you are eligible for, this should then involve 10-15 minutes while you're talked through everything including all products (irrespective of if you want them or not)

Then however long it takes to discuss what you want product wise if any, chats about finance if you going to take it and PX price.

Then we should be at a point where you have said a payment/price to change where you're happy to leave a deposit.

Back to sales manager to discuss adjustments and if possible go back with that deal or a deal we can do that's close to it.

With regards to CAP & Glasses, no large dealership will use a book as it's out of date before it gets to the trader/dealer.

Everythings online via your reg an mileage.

We then get guide prices, these aren't exact as no two cars are identical, we then have to account for service history, amount of keys, mot length, scratches, options, colour and desirability.

With regards to freebies, nothing's free it all has to be accounted for on the bottom line I'd be quite happy to give everyone a bottle of wine, flowers, fuel & mats if you paid list, but I'm sure you would rather have the money off the car in reality.

Our average profit is around £800-£1000 on used cars and around £250 from finance and insurance products.

We then lose 20% in VAT, pay the sales exec commision, then pay the wages for all other staff, technicians, admin, Valeter's, receptionists, cleaners & managers, then there's the showroom costs of heat, upkeep, rent, coffee, phone bills, internet and the list will go on.

With regards to how you're treated is tricky because if I use myself as an example I get a lot of repeat business and reccomendations, I've got customers who will just buy where ever I'm working because they like me.

I also have customers that probably think I'm a twat and deserve to be run over.

At the end of the day were just human and there's both good and bad in any job.

It does generally seem though that everyone knows how my job works and what we can do despite having never done it.

randella

@DanR  interesting post. I think there's a pressure, particularly on men, that you have to go in to a dealership all guns blazing and do some alpha male thing to match up to the urban mythology that cars all cost £2.85 and you're a twat if you pay more. 

As as I mentioned before, I love a light-touch salesman who knows his business and, in terms of negotiations, I'm generally happy with a bit of road tax and a tank of unleaded if the car's priced fairly.

Were both in a business (I'm in IT) that every bugger thinks they know inside-out which is why I was interested in the stuff I've been told over the years and whether or not any of it's true.

I'd go back to that Honda dealer in a snap.