Latest on the CITES Rosewood Laws

Rabs

From the MIA

http://www.mia.org.uk/2017/02/cites-update-help-for-shops-and-customers/

In our latest update following the Rosewood restrictions, here are some guidance notes to help UK retailers, suppliers and consumers alike:

General update

• Applications are currently planned to be processed within 15 days by the authorities. Please let us know if this proves to be the case!
• This time scale starts when they have a complete application. A complete application includes all the supporting information needed to process it, together with the correct fee.
• The cost of licences is set out in a Statutory Instrument (SI) and cannot be altered without the changes being authorised by Parliament.
• For your information, this is a link to the charging schedule for plant specimens:
• https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/355265/cites-ag-ct-02.pdf
• Whilst there is provision in the Regulations for semi-complete (re)-export permits, APHA will not consider these unless an applicant exports exceptionally  large quantities of specimens on at least  a monthly basis and has a minimum of a 2 year track record of making applications

Specific Shop and Consumer advice

• Annex B listed specimens (ie Rosewood) do not require CITES documents to authorise trade within the EU. Documents are only required for commercial exports to and from third countries outside the EU. However any person can be challenged to show that a specimen was lawfully imported, either before or after listing.
• Some suppliers are advising shops to write the serial number of the guitar on both customer and shop copy of receipts
• This is a very good idea and will show an audit trail, and assist with compliance. However this is not a legal requirement.
• Of course, some (many) instruments do not have serial numbers…..
• In this case, APHA advise  pointing out to customers the restrictions in place and providing a receipt with as much information as possible about where the guitar has come from would be helpful and encourage compliance with the requirements of the CITES Regulations.
• We have also been advised that taking photos of instruments as a record is also useful, especially showing distinguishing features

India and Indonesia

• No news yet on India and Indonesia coming up with some sort of Compromise Documentation during the Reservation period
• The EU Commission will advise us when anything gets sorted

We will keep the updates coming and have put some useful links in a CITES box on the right hand of our website.

Rabs

I think this is the most relevant part for the average guitarist who wants to take their guitar on holiday.

"Documents are only required for commercial exports to and from third countries outside the EU. However any person can be challenged to show that a specimen was lawfully imported, either before or after listing."

It depends on exactly how anal they are going to be and how they decide to enforce this.. If at all...  But if I were carrying mine abroad id make sure I took my receipt.. Just in case...

As for us guitar builders..  Its all a bit of a pain (even though I generally agree that something needed to be done to protect the forests and species or we would just wipe it out)...

p90fool

So presumably that will change for us when we are outside the EU? 

Rabs

Hmm.. probably.. but not much...  I think whatever happens that you will still need a  pre 2017 receipt or  post 2017 certificate to carry Rosewood abroad or to buy and sell internationally...

jaymenon

If buy a Warmoth neck with a rosewood fingerboard in the US - and bring it back myself to the UK in my hand baggage when I return from the US, will I need a CITES certificate?

guitars4you

jaymenon said:

If buy a Warmoth neck with a rosewood fingerboard in the US - and bring it back myself to the UK in my hand baggage when I return from the US, will I need a CITES certificate?

you shouldn't need one - you certainly wouldn't need one for a full guitar, carried as hand luggage, so same should/will apply to a neck only

jaymenon

 I’m sorry, I got a little confused by your reply… 

crunchman

jaymenon said:

If buy a Warmoth neck with a rosewood fingerboard in the US - and bring it back myself to the UK in my hand baggage when I return from the US, will I need a CITES certificate?

No

Strictly speaking, I don't think it would be legal for you to sell on afterwards though.

guitars4you

jaymenon said:

 I’m sorry, I got a little confused by your reply… 

guitars4you said:

jaymenon said:

If buy a Warmoth neck with a rosewood fingerboard in the US - and bring it back myself to the UK in my hand baggage when I return from the US, will I need a CITES certificate?

you shouldn't need one - you certainly wouldn't need one for a full guitar, carried as hand luggage, so same should/will apply to a neck only

simple answer is NO

sorry should have said wouldn't - adjusted now

jaymenon

Thanks very much - now that's clear...!

fandango

jaymenon said:

Thanks very much - now that's clear...!

But if you got a certificate, that would surely help in future?

gavin_axecaster

No, a certificate is a one time use for one import batch containing the protected species.
There is a "Musical Instruments" Certificate that is valid for up to 3 years which is meant to ease working musician's carrying their instruments across border.
1.6.7
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/cites/info_permits_en.htm

crunchman

The problem is if you want to sell it in future.  If it's a post 2017 guitar/neck, it might be difficult without some type of paperwork.  You have no proof that it came into the country legally.  Expecting the average punter to have that kind of paperwork for a guitar is asking a bit much, but I wouldn't trust the jobsworth bureaucrats running this as far as I could throw Kim Jong Un.

jaymenon

 I wouldn’t want to sell it in the future -  but it would be a real nuisance if somebody at the airport were to give me a hard time  when I’m bringing it in ... 

gavin_axecaster

You can't export any rosewood outside the EU without a certificate, regardless of it's origin.
To be honest the certificates are BS anyway - currently everyone is stating the rosewood as "pre-convention" so they don't have to provide evidence of when or how it was harvested. I'm not sure how long we are going to be able to get away with that, although legitimate Indian rosewood won't be an issue, it will simply need another certificate from the loggers to the manufacturer and another cert # to put on the application.

mbe

I'm having a brand new guitar delivered today from a dealer. It has a rosewood fingerboard. What should I look out for in the way of any necessary paperwork?

guitars4you

mbe said:

I'm having a brand new guitar delivered today from a dealer. It has a rosewood fingerboard. What should I look out for in the way of any necessary paperwork?

Is it purchased from the UK /EU ?

Assuming it is and assuming the goods arrived in to the EU/UK after 1/1/17 then the supplier will have been issued with a CITES number - this in return will have been passed onto the dealer and again this in return should be passed onto you and quoted on the sales invoice along with the serial number - No certificate itself is issued, just the appropriate CITES number which will allow you to sell it within the EU at anytime as required

Used guitars, brought into the EU/UK before 1/1/17 and a dealer invoice, with date of manufacture + serial number should quote
 
Pre EU Reg 338/97  - This instrument was legally imported into the EU before the rosewoods used were protected by the CITES convention + EU Reg 338/97 – dated 2/1/17