Sticky strings or frets or fretboards.. idk.

Grunfeld

skunkwerx said:

Cheer all. I did try the baby powder...

Look into:
Zinc stearate
Get it in a powder.
I got a job lot from Bulgaria.

boogieman

To me this reads it's happening because you're not developing proper callouses on your fingertips and it's the soft skin that causing the dragging or sticky sensation. Not sure how you can sort this unfortunately as it sounds like you play regularly enough to form hard callouses. You could try putting a bit of superglue on your fingertips to see if that helps the issue? I doubt that's a good thing to do keep doing long term though, so if it does work you'll need to find a better way to harden up your fingertips. 

skunkwerx

Yeah boogieman i agree the callouses should be harder. I think It could be to do with having to moisturise the hands daily. Bastard dry skin! 

Definately enough playing to have formed them. Used to have nice tough callouses, dunno what happened... 

Roland

Callouses get softer because, with experience, you don't press as hard. At 18 mine were like hardwood, and now they're like soft leather

skunkwerx

Lil update on this. 

Its still the same old shite, but i eventually got a doctors appointment, explained the whole thing etc. 

He basically looked at my fingers, said theres not much obviously wrong, and then wrote down 'mindfullness' and told me to go research that.. 

As though its a mental thing.. which is absurd because... just because.. 

I did tell him its literally 24/7 when playing at home, and I've never performed or played on stage or with a band, so its not like I'm sweating or nervous!! 


On the verge of packing it all in.. but hell its been like that for the last 3 years.. 

fandango

skunkwerx said:

Lil update on this. 

Its still the same old shite, but i eventually got a doctors appointment, explained the whole thing etc. 

He basically looked at my fingers, said theres not much obviously wrong, and then wrote down 'mindfullness' and told me to go research that.. 

As though its a mental thing.. which is absurd because... just because.. 

I did tell him its literally 24/7 when playing at home, and I've never performed or played on stage or with a band, so its not like I'm sweating or nervous!! 


On the verge of packing it all in.. but hell its been like that for the last 3 years.. 

I might be inclined to go back to the doctor and make him understand. I think his £budget is screwed so he doesn't want to refer you to a specialist. Otherwise change GPs and find someone who is willing to put the boat out for you.

On a lighter note, if you're finding it's metal you're allergic to, have you tried playing country?

skunkwerx

Lol! Mainly been playing the blues haha.. 

aye, theyre rubbish around here the Gp's, or atleast their budgets. 

Funnily enough I only changed last year. Struggled to find any others in my catchment area that has more than a 1 or 2 star rating.. eeesh. 

I did look at seeing a private one, but my God the cost just for the appointment is £200... 

mbe

You could try soaking your finger tips in Surgical Spirit. It's like rubbing alcohol and obtainable from a pharmacy. That will help to harden the calluses.

If that stings, get some Witch Hazel to rub on after. 

skunkwerx

Will look into that. Cheers. 

The only thing that makes it playable for me is moisturising my hands as usual with the palmers shea butter stuff, but twice, before playing.. my hands are practically greasy even half hour after applying it...

in turn the back of the unfinished neck now feels like its a coated one... but the slides and bends are doable.. and its stayed like it.. which I dont know whether to be annoyed at or not... 

Thing is, its obviously a cause for concern all that moisterizer going on the wood.. 

I tried not moisturising my fingers for about 2 weeks to see any difference.. it was worse. Much worse, and the callouses werent hardening at all anyway in that time, and with the grippy rubbing and fingers really catching on the strings and frets, they just ended up bloody sore.
so i went back to moisturising the tips..

its bloody frustrating.  

Danielsguitars

Take up slide playing

Good luck any way, if you enjoy it don't give up 

Vaiai

Does it do this on a maple board? Or have you tried any guitars in shops that have stainless frets?

skunkwerx

Vaiai said:

Does it do this on a maple board? Or have you tried any guitars in shops that have stainless frets?

I have tried neither yet. But I have often wondered about both. 

Got some holiday to book so I'll aim to get down to a store and see what I see! Ill post my findings! 

Teyeplayer

@Vaiai comment is exactly the thought I had on first reading your thread, as maple is as I understand it a sealed board whereas rosewood and ebony are raw wood and it may be something to do with the way your skin/sweat reacts with the wood.

The other thing that came to mind as you describe lots of fretboard treatments that are really just chemicals that again you might have a problem with. It made me wonder about an alternative, olive oil. Teye (of Teye guitars) always recommends olive oil as a fretboard treatment as it is a natural product and is in his opinion less damaging to the wood. I've always suffered from eczema and when it has been really bad over the years I have used olive oil as a treatment -for me it works really well and I have always been concerned by the use or petroleum in many creams. You may find olive oil on your hands and your fretboard are less likely to cause adverse reactions.

May be of absolutely no use but sounds like anything is worth a try. Best of luck sorting this.

skunkwerx

Teyeplayer said:

@Vaiai comment is exactly the thought I had on first reading your thread, as maple is as I understand it a sealed board whereas rosewood and ebony are raw wood and it may be something to do with the way your skin/sweat reacts with the wood.

The other thing that came to mind as you describe lots of fretboard treatments that are really just chemicals that again you might have a problem with. It made me wonder about an alternative, olive oil. Teye (of Teye guitars) always recommends olive oil as a fretboard treatment as it is a natural product and is in his opinion less damaging to the wood. I've always suffered from eczema and when it has been really bad over the years I have used olive oil as a treatment -for me it works really well and I have always been concerned by the use or petroleum in many creams. You may find olive oil on your hands and your fretboard are less likely to cause adverse reactions.

May be of absolutely no use but sounds like anything is worth a try. Best of luck sorting this.

Haha you know what, olive oil crossed my mind.. well, it was vegetable oil I think, but anyway I was cooking a few weeks back and got some on me fingers and wondered! 

Maple board does sound worth a shot if it is the wood. I presume theyre easy to clean too without any open pores to trap whatever could be gunking up my ebony and rosewood boards. 

When I first noticed this problem it was with an epiphone les paul, with rosewood and a really open grain/ big pores, the frets were lower than I was used to as well, so I immediately thought it was my finger tips grabbing the board, that was less smooth than my other more dense rosewood board. 

Then again its still prevalent on the ebony chapman which at first touch feels very smooth and dense.

But I'd be interested to give a maple board a go and even if no joy, at least it can eliminate the wood itself being a factor!  

UnexplainedBacon

Hey there @skunkwerx ; I know this is an ancient discussion thread but I've been searching the internet for clues on my own 'sticky strings' issue which brought me to this thread, you describe exactly what I'm experiencing. Did you ever resolve your problem? Got any tips?

I've been playing for about 25yrs with no issues until about a year or two ago when this thing started. Figured I'd developed sweatier/oilier hands over the years and just started washing thoroughly before playing to mitigate effects, but it only partially helps. I have several guitars, maple and rosewood boards, from prestige Ibanez to mex Charvel, there's no common feature other than, after 15-20 mins playing, I experience the same 'stickiness' on each one but to varying degrees.

I wonder if nickel is the culprit? I'm about to try stainless steel strings to test. I'm also considering buying a steel fretted guitar just to rule out nickel altogether. Any thoughts, insights (or miraculous cures) appreciated. Cheers. 

skunkwerx

UnexplainedBacon said:

Hey there @skunkwerx ;; I know this is an ancient discussion thread but I've been searching the internet for clues on my own 'sticky strings' issue which brought me to this thread, you describe exactly what I'm experiencing. Did you ever resolve your problem? Got any tips?

I've been playing for about 25yrs with no issues until about a year or two ago when this thing started. Figured I'd developed sweatier/oilier hands over the years and just started washing thoroughly before playing to mitigate effects, but it only partially helps. I have several guitars, maple and rosewood boards, from prestige Ibanez to mex Charvel, there's no common feature other than, after 15-20 mins playing, I experience the same 'stickiness' on each one but to varying degrees.

I wonder if nickel is the culprit? I'm about to try stainless steel strings to test. I'm also considering buying a steel fretted guitar just to rule out nickel altogether. Any thoughts, insights (or miraculous cures) appreciated. Cheers. 

Hey buddy. Firstly I really do feel your pain man. 

Secondly, brace yourself for another essay from me haha. 

When I had that Epiphone I mentioned in the original post it was an absolute joke. I tried everything I could think of. It really was the worst it ever was and no guitar since then has ever been as bad, but the problem has always been there. 

Like I said the back of the neck was never an issue, it was my finger tips feeling so sticky on the strings/fretboard/frets. 

I do know I have shit skin/genes in general. 

My hands get super horrible dry feeling after I wash them or shower, and so does my neck, so I need to moisturise a lot, whenever I’ve washed my hands. 

I also dont heal piercings very well, they form keloids and tattoo lines spread/blow out easily on me, though only very slightly, not fully blown like google images will show you. 

I’ve come to think because of that it partly is my own chemistry or body and theres buggar all I can do. 

I even went to the doctors about this guitar issue. He was super unhelpful and wrote down ‘mindfulness’ and told me to google it. Prick. 

Others simply recommend a dermatologist type moisturiser from a chemists. Didnt work and was less effective than my palmers stuff. 

Other things I tried: 

I tried talc, which made a huge mess and didnt help.

I tried washing my hands and letting them dry thoroughly and not moisturising them. Didnt make a difference just made my hands feel awful lol.

Musicians gloves.. yeah they exist but hardly last long at all.

Different brand strings. I tried Elixir coated ones, they felt great but the 3 treble strings didnt feel much/any different. In fact I think when I googled it they dont coat those strings, theyre just stainless steel. 

On the epi I polished the frets, scraped the board and oiled it etc. 
No difference and in fact oiling it made it worse. More on this later.. 

I tried fast fret. It made it very slick for 10 mins then made it a bigger sticky mess. 

I still cant figure it out, it’s just something I’ve had to live with. 

So I went back to using my regular Ernie Ball 9’s or 10’s. 

I wont lie this whole thing gave me an OCD..

I wash my hands before I play using dove handwash from their pump bottles, fine silk was one of them though they recently rebranded it, and then I only use one brand of moisturiser for my hands which is Palmers cocoa butter, the type from the bottle. 

The only reason for that is the dove didnt leave my hands feeling like there was any residue on them like some normal soap does, and the palmers is the only moisturiser I’ve ever tried that works for me and again doesnt leave a sticky feel to my hands. 

I have a separate towel I use just for drying my hands and nowt else so as to keep it as clean as possible just in case. 

After I moisturise my hands I usually wait half an hour for the moisturiser to be fully ‘dry’ then play. I try not to touch my face or head with the fretting hand during that time. More on this later too. 

skunkwerx

Part 2: 

I have noticed that some guitars I react worse with than others. 

The Epi was unplayable for me. I have never played anything since that has been that bad. It also had very very soft frets. They would scratch after 5 mins playing. So maybe SS frets could help. I never managed to try.  

However I have noticed on a Gibson I owned that like the Epiphone, the rosewood board was very rough, big open pores/grain. 

 Oiling it only made the whole issue worse. How, no idea. I oiled my Ltd and Prs rosewood boards hundreds of times and they never felt bad. They seemed harder though and much less porous. 

I then played a Gibson Les Paul Jr, small ass frets and a rosewood board. It was dry as hell and I never let it touch oil. It was excellent. Turned into my main guitar for a couple years. 

The problems never gone away, but some guitars do seem to make it worse.  

I now have 2 ltds with ebony boards and XJ frets. 

Theyre great. Playable. 

I also have a Fender tele with glossy maple board. Again its fine. 

The issue isnt gone though. I have basically just tried not to practice repetitive slides/bends or just for too long on the treble strings. I dont play blues so this isnt too sad for me. I am a metal guy though so, solos etc still pose an issue. 

I break practice up if I need to learn something down there. On the bass/wound (EAD) strings, the issue was hardly ever a problem for me, again why, I do not know. I can only think because 1 they are thicker so my finger tip maybe doesnt touch fret or fretboard so much, and 2 they are wound so the surface area my finger is in contact with is much less than a plain string. 

Bends and slides take their toll quick but even as I play I guess just sweat makes things worse anyway. 

After playing I wipe the strings down with a plain and clean dunlop cloth, do each one individually, underneath and above, and then wipe the fretboard too. 

I change strings fairly regular, maybe a little
more than most guys. Maybe once a month. 

Theres a thing classical musicians do/used to do. 

Its a lil grim, and tbh it only works short term before like usual making things stickier, thus requiring another application. 

They run their fretting fingertips over their face, particularly the crease each side of the nose. The face emits a lot of sebum, which is basically a natural lubricant. 

But 10 minutes later you’ll need to do it again. The upside is its free and you have an endless supply. But I dont bother with it because its not a cure. 

skunkwerx

Also interestingly, most guys love satin finished guitars. 

I have owned several and hate them with a passion. They ‘sticky’ up for me and cant be cleaned properly and it just gets worse over time. No one else reports that so I think it adds to the ‘my skin/what it emits is shit’  claim. 

So for you is it worse on any particular strings or all 6 equally? 

It sucks man, really does. 

I’m sure mine has improved over the years, but again I really stay away from repetitive use of the treble strings especially slides and bends. I find if I do a little bit then just play powerchords or whatnot on the bass strings for a while, then go back to the trebles. 

Now I can play for 2 hours, with little breaks, and it be ok. But I do limit my time bending and sliding those plain strings.  

Before I would repeat a lick or solo over and over for ages when learning or practicing, until it felt like I was trying to slide my finger across rubber. 

I didnt play last ‘whatever month was hottest’ as I just couldnt deal with the sweat lol. Always makes things worse. 

Nothing else changed, I got older, Im 33 now. Quitting smoking didnt help, i thought maybe it might somehow. 

skunkwerx

But @UnexplainedBacon I actually joined this forum for the sole purpose of creating this thread. 

I dont know if a mental angle helps this issue, but this place has helped my sanity thats for sure. 

Hope even if just by talking about it that it might help you out too man.

UnexplainedBacon

Hey man, @skunkwerx ;thanks for the response. Sorry to hear you never really got to the bottom of this, must be frustrating. I’m inclined to agree that maybe body chemistry is the primary factor. Sounds like you were fobbed-off a little bit by the doctor, although I’m clearly no expert, maybe mental / emotional states can effect things like the body’s ph balance? I dunno man.

The ph balance is interesting though, whether triggered mentally or otherwise. You say you have a dry skin issue on your hands after washing, I don’t have this particularly, but do get dryness on my forehead (of all places) after showering. I also use the Palmers butter to remedy it (the solid stuff in the tub), the only product that doesn’t leave a greasy residue for me. What’s notable is that this dryness reduces significantly when I’m exercising regularly (ie not very often). This means, I think, that my blood sugar is lower when I’m more active, therefore reducing overall inflammation, creating less of the dryness and more balanced ph levels. I’m speculating here of course, I’d need to corroborate with some research, but I think it’s worth looking into. Ultimately, better diet and more exercise is going to be beneficial whether it reduces the acidity in my hands or not. I should get back in the gym and see if there's a correlation with performance on the guitar.

I’ve tried Fast Fret, and the Planet Waves equivalent, feels super slick for a very short period of time then seems to get quite gummy / tacky with obvious oiliness. 

Also tried talc, this actually worked for me, to some extent. I think it creates a barrier, at least for a while, but eventually wears off, not a permanent solution. 

Interesting you say it’s worse on some guitars than others. I’ve also noted this. I have an LTD Deluxe and a Charvel San Dimas, both are what you might call mid-range instruments, both have maple boards. The Charvel in particular has VERY soft frets and is easily the one I experience the most problems with. It’s about 3yr old and needs a serious fret dress already, the LTD is better in this regard but I still experience the stickiness. 

By comparison, I have a Prestige Ibanez SZ (rosewood board) that has had only one fret dress in over 15yrs of ownership, obviously the frets are much harder material on the Ibby, and the sticky problem is nowhere near as bad. I had an American Pro II Tele recently (roasted maple neck and board), returned it within 2 weeks as I couldn’t get on with the fat neck in the end, but never really had the sticky thing occur on that either in the time I had it. I assume the more expensive Ibanez and Fender have harder / higher quality fret material? Maybe.

I think this could mean that the breakdown of the softer frets on the cheaper instruments is creating a build up of metal particles that might be reacting with the acid from my hands and actually oxidising / corroding during that one playing session. Again, I’m speculating wildly here, but at this point I’d consider anything / everything if it’ll yield a solution.

It really does feel like the strings are degrading right before my eyes, feels great for a few minutes, then slowly the brakes are coming on, bends get more difficult, slides are getting a ’squeaky’ feel from the friction, even hammer-ons and pull-offs are choked, till eventually I have to clean everything (strings, fretboard, hands) and start again. Sometimes it’s so bad my finger tips have turned completely black with soot. All in the space of about 20 minutes, it’s maddening.

I was hoping to find a quick fix with a few minutes googling but it seems to be quite rare. I’m pretty certain it’s a combination of acidity levels in the skin, soft frets, soft string material, and maybe some form of corrosion that’s already happening before playing. 

So there’s some things I think I can experiment with to narrow it down… 

I’ve used D’addario XL or NYXL strings (both nickel wound) forever on all the guitars I’ve had, so I have a handful of new string types on their way to me from amazon now: D’addario Pro Steels, Ernie Ball (stainless & cobalts), Elixir Nanowebs, Optima gold plated. I wonder if harder steel strings will wear down the frets even quicker and make the problem worse (??!!) I guess I’ll find out.

Steel fret guitar, an expensive option but it’s a good excuse for a new fiddle Maybe I can justify that Suhr now.

My guitars are racked on a stand when not in use, maybe the room humidity has increased over the years exposing the poor quality of the cheaper guitars, creating some oxidation build up between sessions? I could case the guitars between playing to see if it makes a difference. Or get a dehumidifier.

The changes in lifestyle already mentioned, this could be a dietary thing making my hands too acidic for nickel strings and frets.

I’d never heard of musicians gloves (wtf?) Maybe I should give them a try as well.

If none of this helps then maybe we can start a support group for sticky string sufferers.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback man, good to know I’m not the only one at least, thought I was imagining the whole thing for a bit there. I joined here just to comment on this thread so I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed reply.