Is derv in for a price hike this year!

strtdv

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year, any long family journeys are done in my car, so without the cheaper tax and lower fuel costs a petrol makes sense.

I'll keep my current diesel for 3 years or so and then see what makes sense for me.

Part of the issue is there's a shortage of petrol cars I'd be interested in. My next car is likely to be something like a 3/5 Series Touring or an A6 Avant, which basically means diesel at the moment, certainly for a nearly-new car rather than brand new.

ESBlonde

So what about testing some of these 'inventions' like energising the fuel with magnets or generating hydrogen in a jam jar and sucking it into the air cleaner (see you tube for more details). There was an American that was getting 100+mpg in a yank tank in the early seventies but he erm...went 'missing'. There are some amazing claims and I suspect many are just ego stoking or scientifically suspect, but equally I suspect the big oil nations/companies have got most of the worlds governments by the danglies to continue with the profiteering status quo.

Rudolf Diesel himself said the engine would run on vegitable oil. He also went 'missing' off a cross chanel ferry!

Sporky

strtdv said:

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year

Definitely not diesel for that mileage!

Evilmags

In Europe where the switch to diesel was more extreme some of the smog issues are getting really nasty. Paris and Madrid in particular both have major issues and Madrid notably smells of diesel fumes. 

The question in hand is "how to efficiently burn a fuel without subjecting it to massive amounts of compression". US cities don´t have the same smog issues mainly because engines are high volume, low power V8s. If you want less smog, don´t put so much nitrogen in the explosion chamber of the engine.  

Sporky

Evilmags said:

US cities don´t have the same smog issues mainly because engines are high volume, low power V8s.

When most US cars did have V8s, US cities were blanketed in toxic smog. It was a significant part of the various Clean Air Acts to reduce pollution from cars.

Unless by "the same smog issues" you're trying to sidestep that many US cities have much worse smog, but it's of a different makeup because they favour petrol over diesel. Y'know, like that "an end to boom and bust" thing, which was retconned into "an end to Tory boom and bust"...?

mrkb

m_c said:

RandallFlagg said:

hotpot said:

Bidley said:

... dafuq is 'derv'?

It's what I've always known it as, it's he Brit name for diesel oil.

Diesel Engined Road Vehicle

Or in the context of this thread, Diesel Excised for Road Vehicles.

So it that worse than wanting a PERV? Petrol Engineed Road Vehicle...... IGMC.

mrkb

m_c said:

RandallFlagg said:

hotpot said:

Bidley said:

... dafuq is 'derv'?

It's what I've always known it as, it's he Brit name for diesel oil.

Diesel Engined Road Vehicle

Or in the context of this thread, Diesel Excised for Road Vehicles.

So it that worse than wanting a PERV? Petrol Engineed Road Vehicle...... IGMC.

strtdv

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year

Definitely not diesel for that mileage!

True, but still cheaper.
She wants a Golf with heated seats and satnav.
Options are essentially a GTD or a GTI.
GTD is about £750 cheaper to buy, is £100 a year cheaper to tax, and £300 a year in fuel cheaper, even with that low mileage.
Keep the car for 4 years and that's £2350 cheaper over the time she'll keep the car, although you'd get about £800 of that back due to the stronger residual of the GTI, but diesel is still cheaper by a fair margin.

For me, I do 10-12k miles a year and unless petrol got a lot cheaper, there's no chance I'd change at the moment.

ICBM

^ That is exactly why, if the problem of diesel cars is going to be solved, both the road tax discount needs to be removed and the price of diesel increased. The relative pricing is still the wrong way round and people will continue to buy diesels until it isn't.

Garthy

strtdv said:

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year

Definitely not diesel for that mileage!

True, but still cheaper.
She wants a Golf with heated seats and satnav.
Options are essentially a GTD or a GTI.
GTD is about £750 cheaper to buy, is £100 a year cheaper to tax, and £300 a year in fuel cheaper, even with that low mileage.
Keep the car for 4 years and that's £2350 cheaper over the time she'll keep the car, although you'd get about £800 of that back due to the stronger residual of the GTI, but diesel is still cheaper by a fair margin.

For me, I do 10-12k miles a year and unless petrol got a lot cheaper, there's no chance I'd change at the moment.

How much will it cost to fix the DPF in the GTD when it gets clogged up and can't regenerate?

strtdv

@Garthy do a long run every couple of weeks and it isn't an issue.

Alternatively, have it removed and do an EGR delete at the same time.

Sporky

strtdv said:

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year

Definitely not diesel for that mileage!

True, but still cheaper.
She wants a Golf with heated seats and satnav.
Options are essentially a GTD or a GTI.
GTD is about £750 cheaper to buy, is £100 a year cheaper to tax, and £300 a year in fuel cheaper, even with that low mileage.
Keep the car for 4 years and that's £2350 cheaper over the time she'll keep the car, although you'd get about £800 of that back due to the stronger residual of the GTI, but diesel is still cheaper by a fair margin.

For me, I do 10-12k miles a year and unless petrol got a lot cheaper, there's no chance I'd change at the moment.

Yeah, but the GTI will be a lot more fun. And I've had cars with the GTD engine and liked 'em.

Also there are plenty of used GTs with heated seats - fer example:

http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/Golf/1.4-TSI-ACT-GT-150-PS-DSG-5-Dr/Horsham/3927158-606012274-2274376.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

mellowsun

On the plus side, once we leave the EU we can tell them where to go with their nanny state pollution controls.

The commission said if countries did not take action within two months it could take the matter to the European Court of Justice.

Taking back control by being free to pollute our own air without censure from EU bureaucrats.

Evilmags

It was the EU that pushed diesel in the first place. The price differential is worse in the EU. 

boogieman

strtdv said:

@Garthy do a long run every couple of weeks and it isn't an issue.

Alternatively, have it removed and do an EGR delete at the same time.

Except that's a) illegal to remove the DPF and b) if you still do it and you get found out come MOT time, it'll automatically fail. You'll then have to have a new unit put back in: that's about 2 grand. 

Run it at a constant 70 for 20 minutes once a month and the DPF will regenerate. Avoid supermarket fuel as it has a higher ash content which blocks the filter, also don't skimp on the oil and use the recommended stuff when the car is serviced. There are companies offering DPF cleaning services if the filter won't regenerate. 

crunchman

Garthy said:

strtdv said:

Sporky said:

strtdv said:

The dieselgate thing and uncertainty about the future of diesels is making me seriously consider a petrol for my wife's car.
She only does about 6-7000 miles a year

Definitely not diesel for that mileage!

True, but still cheaper.
She wants a Golf with heated seats and satnav.
Options are essentially a GTD or a GTI.
GTD is about £750 cheaper to buy, is £100 a year cheaper to tax, and £300 a year in fuel cheaper, even with that low mileage.
Keep the car for 4 years and that's £2350 cheaper over the time she'll keep the car, although you'd get about £800 of that back due to the stronger residual of the GTI, but diesel is still cheaper by a fair margin.

For me, I do 10-12k miles a year and unless petrol got a lot cheaper, there's no chance I'd change at the moment.

How much will it cost to fix the DPF in the GTD when it gets clogged up and can't regenerate?

This.

Also, unless you can get it registered before April, the petrol and diesel will get taxed the same amount.  Diesel should be taxed more because of the extra stink it makes, but at least the £100 per year tax saving will no longer exist.

It depends where you live, but if you have residents' parking, some London boroughs are starting to charge extra for diesels.

Also, given news stories like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/15/european-commission-issues-final-warning-to-uk-over-air-pollution-breaches
It wouldn't surprise me to see duty on diesel increased.

I think you are also underestimating the resale hit on diesels going forwards.  The tax change due in April will make a significant difference.  For someone buying a 3 three old car second hand, the low taxation on a diesel is currently a major factor.  Without the £100 per year saving I'd expect  resale on the diesel to be hit significantly - probably by several hundred pounds. 

That is without any additional hit on diesel resale due to the way public opinion is turning against them, and whether or not you will be allowed to drive them into cities.  I think I remember reading that the future plans for London's ultra low emissions zone will mean extra charges for even Euro 6 diesels (and possibly petrols as well) by 2025.  If you buy a diesel now and that is confirmed in the next couple of years then you will take a massive hit on resale.  A car that can't be driven into London without paying a charge will not be desirable.  Bear in mind that this zone will be much bigger than the current C-charge zone.

Unless you are doing 20,000 plus miles, or need it to tow, I would steer clear of a new diesel at this point in time.

Sporky

crunchman said:

A car that can't be driven into London without paying a charge will not be desirable.

If I may venture, that's a very London-centric view. I live only 40-odd miles from the centre of London and I never drive there.

ICBM

Evilmags said:

It was the EU that pushed diesel in the first place. The price differential is worse in the EU. 

From what I remember, diesel is actually cheaper per litre than petrol in some countries in Europe, which totally flies in the face of the concept of a carbon tax.

I'd be interested to know, if diesel was 16% more expensive than petrol (the correct differential to reflect the greater carbon content) - ie around £1.40 a litre, 20p more than petrol rather than the 2p it currently is - how much difference it would make to the relative running cost of diesel vs petrol cars.

crunchman

Sporky said:

crunchman said:

A car that can't be driven into London without paying a charge will not be desirable.

If I may venture, that's a very London-centric view. I live only 40-odd miles from the centre of London and I never drive there.

There are millions who do though, even if only occasionally.  Something like 1 in 8 of the population live in greater London.  Add in people who go to visit relatives there, or go there for business, then you can add millions more.  If you take them out of the market for second hand diesels then value will plummet.

Bear in mind that they are talking about charging for driving into other cities as well - not just London.
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/five-cities-to-get-ultra-low-emissions-zones/

At the moment this won't affect Euro 6 cars but given that the real life emissions from Euro 6 diesels are much higher than the official fictitious version then I wouldn't want to bet on that remaining the case.

Evilmags

ICBM said:

Evilmags said:

It was the EU that pushed diesel in the first place. The price differential is worse in the EU. 

From what I remember, diesel is actually cheaper per litre than petrol in some countries in Europe, which totally flies in the face of the concept of a carbon tax.

I'd be interested to know, if diesel was 16% more expensive than petrol (the correct differential to reflect the greater carbon content) - ie around £1.40 a litre, 20p more than petrol rather than the 2p it currently is - how much difference it would make to the relative running cost of diesel vs petrol cars.

Diesel is much cheaper here. By about 20c a litre. It also misses a point, in that since the late 90s development has focused on diesel, taking research money away from petrol, so we don't know what sort of figures petrol would give had it been the mainstay of research. The damage of the intervention is even worse as a result.