Who uses a sound-guy vs mixing from the stage?

TimmyO

maltingsaudio said:

With the greatest respect to @TimmyO  the term "looking at a pocket money plan" fills me with dread. Your either part of the solution or part of the problem and looking at sound engineering as a pocket money thing explains a lot of the problems we have had aired on here about grumpy or absent sound men.

A very good and entirely valid point - I know what I can do and what I can't and wouldn't put myself in a position to not be contributing positively. If I do anything it will be by recommendation, I'm not going to tout myself as a full time professional. 

I got taught the stuff I do know by pros, and did some paid work for a couple of bands some years back when their main guy was sick for a while (Friday night in O'Neills kind of stuff) - over of these bands asked me to take over but back then I didn't have the time.

I am aware of the unofficial sound guy creed according to bands "I'm not happy until you're not happy!" ;-) If I thought I was that guy I'd be devastated!

Danny1969

I don't know where you are @TimmyO  but if your near London then Nick at Tailored Entertainment could probably throw some work your way, his agency does lots of wedding and corporate. Good people 

Down where I am in Portsmouth there is quite a bit of low end paid FOH labour only work, literally just turn up and mix as all the bands have their own vans \ PA etc. Typical pay is only about £40 to £60 but it's not exactly hard work

Gulliver

Before I learned to drive my missus would double as driver and sound tech. She's got a good ear for mixing (she's a violinist and music teacher by trade) and even if we didn't have space or the venue didn't have a FOH desk - she'd give appropriate hand signals which is just as useful.

TimmyO

Danny1969 said:

I don't know where you are @TimmyO  but if your near London then Nick at Tailored Entertainment could probably throw some work your way, his agency does lots of wedding and corporate. Good people 

Down where I am in Portsmouth there is quite a bit of low end paid FOH labour only work, literally just turn up and mix as all the bands have their own vans \ PA etc. Typical pay is only about £40 to £60 but it's not exactly hard work

Yep the latter is all I'm after to get a bit more experience in different situations.

I'm Swindon, Wiltshire based so not a huge music scene (although some great stuff) 

A friend did mention that he knows of a big sound hire place that's always after more bodies to help so may try that too, if only to show my face and find more out. 

mike257

Does "a pocket money thing" mean the sound tech equivalent of pub bands doing wedding gigs for £200 and undercutting all the professionals?

I don't know of any bands at pub level paying someone to do it. I have a few good clients doing function/corporate work, but that predominantly comes from the agency rather than the band themselves.

If you're looking at it as a serious move, happy to give some advice on building up your experience and getting a foot wedged in the door - if it is just a bit of weekend fun, maybe just approach some local bands that you think may be interested. Just don't go and buy a few grands worth of PA gear then put yourself out with it all for £80 a go though, yeah? Some of us are trying to make a living here, haha!

TimmyO

mike257 said:

Does "a pocket money thing" mean the sound tech equivalent of pub bands doing wedding gigs for £200 and undercutting all the professionals?

Nope - I can't provide the service or gear that that sort of gig calls for, don't want to.

As I said earlier:

 TimmyO said:

maltingsaudio said:

With the greatest respect to @TimmyO  the term "looking at a pocket money plan" fills me with dread. Your either part of the solution or part of the problem and looking at sound engineering as a pocket money thing explains a lot of the problems we have had aired on here about grumpy or absent sound men.

A very good and entirely valid point - I know what I can do and what I can't and wouldn't put myself in a position to not be contributing positively. If I do anything it will be by recommendation, I'm not going to tout myself as a full time professional. 

koneguitarist

i allways do sound for my band unless we are using a hired in rig, where owner will know the system far better than me, 
But a lot depends on how consistent the band is as well. If band is all about ego and who can play loudest, an engineer will struggle anyway, if band know their stuff and got their sound done well, you can sort it yourself. Money is not there to pay a sound engineer an equal share just to mix vocals, acoustic and maybe a touch of kick drum.
All this "we need everything through PA as it sounds better" is daft in a small pub, not needed and creates more problems that it solves. 
Too many local bands want a sound engineer just so they can play loud and not care about problems. Use your bloody ears, that's your best monitors. Go out front and listen to your band, if you sound loud and portly mixed, then it's because you are not paying attention to size of venue and each other. 

Danny1969

koneguitarist said:

i allways do sound for my band unless we are using a hired in rig, where owner will know the system far better than me, 
But a lot depends on how consistent the band is as well. If band is all about ego and who can play loudest, an engineer will struggle anyway, if band know their stuff and got their sound done well, you can sort it yourself. Money is not there to pay a sound engineer an equal share just to mix vocals, acoustic and maybe a touch of kick drum.
All this "we need everything through PA as it sounds better" is daft in a small pub, not needed and creates more problems that it solves. 
Too many local bands want a sound engineer just so they can play loud and not care about problems. Use your bloody ears, that's your best monitors. Go out front and listen to your band, if you sound loud and portly mixed, then it's because you are not paying attention to size of venue and each other. 

If there's one thing I've learnt in 35 years of gig'ing is that there is no "right" way for everyone. I'm quite a fan of using as little gear as possible, get in .... couple of mics in the PA for vocals, just use backline etc get paid, get out but after a few gigs doing that I have to go back on IEM's as the ol skool approach is just too dam loud to use 3 or 4 times a week. Once or twice a week maybe. 
Then of course once your using IEM's you can't tell shit about how it sounds out the front, the PA could go off completely and you would be none the wiser (this has happened when some dick pulled out the extension lead powering the PA speakers) So you kind of need a soundman in this approach

Also I don't think modern players are using sound engineers so they can play loud .... I mean a lot of guys don't use any amps at all onstage ...  it's all Di'ed......... i

As I say this is no correct solution for every band playing pubs, you just do what works best for the situation your in at the time.