How Many Key Changes?

Bellycaster

I've been meaning to put this out for weeks. If you listen to Ken Bruce on Radio 2, you will know he has "Tracks of my Years" featuring a famous artist every week.

Maybe a couple of months ago I heard Carole King's tracks and one of hers was Earth, Wind and Fire's "After the Love Has Gone"

In the segment where she explained why she chose this song she complimented it etc and mentioned that it had something like 25 key changes?

I don't know if this is true and I suppose it wouldn't mean 25 DIFFERENT keys, but that it CHANGES 25 times etc. I wouldn't want to transcribe it in a rush and it does seem a complex song to learn, but 25 changes?

It would probably take the most experienced theory gurus on here to tell whether that is anywhere near the truth?

What do you surmise?

Beautiful song and a band that is up there as one of my most respected.

 

 

 

maltingsaudio

Couldn't get to 25 nearer 3 but its the chromatic climbs ( who oa oh oa oh) which could be counted as key changes which would give you 25 ish as a non theorist

Bellycaster

@maltingsaudio

I think you are probably right there, it's most likely she was refering to those parts.

Thanks.

 

randomhandclaps

It totally subjective to how you 'view; music.  As mentioned it throws in plenty on non-diatonic chords which would rack up 'perceived' key changes all floating around the F major key. 

The key here though is in the fact we are talking about Carole King who was obviously a pianist.  Pianists particularly spend much of their piano lesson years learning rigid scales and chord inversions.   Add to this the fact that Carole had a huge founding in jazz where soloists tend to follow key changes as opposed to riding over them. She would quite understandably view any non-diatonic chord as a key change. 

Does it technically have a large number of key changes?  Yes it does. 

Would most average musicians view it as such? Probably not.

Would it ultimately make a difference to how you perform the piece? No

What makes is seem odd is that in most popular music we have learn to interpret the term 'a key change' as an obvious and usually fairly permanent change as opposed to passing changes.

Skipped

This UK (number one) hit single from the sixties has 3 key changes in the first 40 seconds.
I didn't count them but Wiki says the song changes key 11 times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_rqm7WPPI

Bellycaster

@Skipped

Yeah, you can hear it as plain as day in that one.

Kebabkid

Try Beyonce's 'Love on top"- if memory serves me, there are about 4-5 key changes there.Had to play this one last year and it was a pain to remember

bigjon

'Mack the knife' is the bane of every jazz function band musician's life. Similarly,if you have invented a quick-change capo for double-bass, you'll get royalties from every bassist who has to play 'Fever'.

Bellycaster

Kebabkid said:

Try Beyonce's 'Love on top"- if memory serves me, there are about 4-5 key changes there.Had to play this one last year and it was a pain to remember

@Kebabkid

Good track, I;m not a huge Beyonce fan, but I like that one.

PS Love your new Thumbnail

 

Kebabkid

Cheers BC

Bellycaster

@bigjon

If it earns me money like that I'll get the toolbox out now

monquixote

The Blues Brothers version of "Think" has a key change every time around the main sequence (much like Love On Top), that's a right pain in the arse to play and even worse for singers. 

gazzauk

6 or 7 in Penny Lane, which surprised me!

Phil_aka_Pip

IMO there's a difference between a temporary key change and one which becomes "established". An example of a temporary key change is when the ii chord is played as II7 before the V chord, but the following tune with its harmony continues in the original key. If however the tune continued as is what was the V chord is now being treated as I then the key change is "established". Also a key change may be "abrupt" ie just go to the new key without trying to modulate into it - for example start the song in G but play the 3rd verse in A. That IMO also counts as a key change, but the first (temporary) example doesn't.

equalsql

When ever I think of key changes I think of Steely Dan, especially Aja. That track constantly shifts keys and tempo.

It's a great track for soloing practice as you really need to keep your ears peeled

bingefeller

How many key changes in Chesney Hawkes' I Am The One and Only?   Love that song.  

Bellycaster

Blimey, it's the "Return of the Living Thread"

Nice to listen to Aja again though, and the Chesney Hawkes track has the greatest ever Guitar Solo for a "Commercial Pop Hit".

Skipped

Good thread this.
When I listen to Aja my jaw is on the floor which may explain why I have never actually noticed the key changes. (Goes off to listen......)

koneguitarist

I remember we used to player "singer of sad songs" by Waylon Jennings, that had 3 if I remember right, C-D-E

viz

Bellycaster said:

I've been meaning to put this out for weeks. If you listen to Ken Bruce on Radio 2, you will know he has "Tracks of my Years" featuring a famous artist every week.

Maybe a couple of months ago I heard Carole King's tracks and one of hers was Earth, Wind and Fire's "After the Love Has Gone"

In the segment where she explained why she chose this song she complimented it etc and mentioned that it had something like 25 key changes?

I don't know if this is true and I suppose it wouldn't mean 25 DIFFERENT keys, but that it CHANGES 25 times etc. I wouldn't want to transcribe it in a rush and it does seem a complex song to learn, but 25 changes?

It would probably take the most experienced theory gurus on here to tell whether that is anywhere near the truth?

What do you surmise?

Beautiful song and a band that is up there as one of my most respected.

 

 

 

It goes like this. I've probably got the words wrong because they're difficult to hear on my phone:

Intro and 1st verse - F
Bridge, 2nd "Something" - B

Chorus:
cm (Oh)
v-i: e#m -> a#m (gone)
V-i: D# -> g#m (on)
V-I: C# -> F# (around)

Repeat chorus


V2, for a while - F
Bridge 3rd "something" - B

Chorus
Chorus

Chorus in ...
Oh - e# minor! (Or f minor if you want to avoid double sharps)
v-I: Gone - d#m
V-I: On - c#m
V-I: Around - B

Sax solo chorus same as above

3 more choruses with sax and singing, same as above (fade out)

So not sure how it's 25. If you include the 4 keys within each chorus, every time they happen, including the last chorus which has the end chopped off in the fadeout, it's 40 keys (39 changes!) and that's not including the chromatic climbs because they are just passing chords with accidentals towards the target. If you count the choruses as just one key (so the four lines descending tone-by-tone in 3 minor chords to the established major one at the bottom, as a single key - so by definition each repeated chorus is not a key change) then it's 7 keys (6 changes).

Maybe she's counting the choruses as having 4 keys and stopping counting at the end of the chorus before the sax solo, because that's really the start of the fadeout? In which case I make it 24 keys, 23 changes.

Anyhoo, as RHC said, they're not proper key changes during those choruses and progressions towards choruses (or the E bridge) because the song never establishes itself in the new key. They're just chord progressions and therefore would be written with accidentals. I think you would probably write the choruses in Gb or F#, and have the i, v-i, V-i, V-I progressions with accidentals. Or you'd choose the start of the progression (the Cm). Or if you wanted to make it as diatonic as possible with as few key changes as you can, and minimising the accidentals, you could give it max one key change halfway through (eg the first part in Ab Major, then when it gets to the Ab minor chord, switch to Gb major. So it would be a 3-6-2-5-1, and on that 1 it would switch to being the 2 of a new 2-5-1. That would minimise the sharps and flats, but be rather odd musically!

viz

The beginning of Gary Moore's Flight of the snow moose used to flummox me.