Does your use of FX pedals negate your choice of guitar?

jeztone2

To me it's a recipe. Even with a lot of FX on, I can hear the inherent tone of the guitar. So I'm not sure. But to me the guitar is the meat, the amp the vegetables & the string gauges & effects are the seasoning. 

english_bob

Rocker said:

Suppose you use a CS Strat and up to four FX pedals to get your sound, how much of your guitar do you actually hear? In other words would swapping you guitar for a different one (a Tele or even a humbucker type) be sonically detectable? 

I think it would very much depend which four effects you were talking about.

Strat -> low gain OD -> subtle chorus -> subtle delay -> subtle reverb would sound very much like a Strat, and the difference between the Strat and a Les Paul with the same effects chain would be night and day. I dare say you'd even be able to tell the difference between the CS Strat and a Squier too. Rather than overwhelming the guitar, potentially you'd struggle to hear the effects.

Substitute the low gain OD for a Big Muff, crank the chorus and reverb right up and throw a volume pedal in the mix to cut off the note attack and you'd probably have a much harder time telling what guitar was under all the mess (or that it was a guitar).

Some effects are meant to overwhelm the sound of the guitar, some aren't. Confusingly, different examples of the same effect might fall in to different camps, and different players want different effects to do one or the other- or maybe one of each to be able to do either at different times. I can see how a player who really likes compression would want one transparent comp and one "character" one, or how lots of players could use a "transparent" overdrive and another dirt pedal that imposes a particular sound on the guitar.

Teetonetal

I've never get too hung up on guitars. I think beyond choosing pickup type, the vast majority of the sound is shaped by amp / speaker / pedals.

Sporky

Sassafras said:

Too many effects can completely mask a guitar's core sound and playing technique.
Of course, I expect to be savagely pilloried for this opinion.

I think it depends what you mean by "too many".

Ring mod into reverb into fuzztortion into bitcrusher into delay into overdrive... probably. Also probably worth trying...

english_bob

Sassafras said:

Too many effects can completely mask a guitar's core sound and playing technique.
Of course, I expect to be savagely pilloried for this opinion.

Yes, they can. 

Effects can be "seasoning" on a tone that's primarily produced by the guitar and amp, like @jeztone2 says. They can also be a kind of "turd-polish" on a rubbish core tone. They can be used to conceal poor technique, or an under-rehearsed performance. They can also be of equal, or greater importance to a part than the choice of guitar or amp is- think of someone like The Edge's use of delay, or Tom Morello's whammy pedal, or any number of players who make playing the guitar sound like not playing a guitar. Sometimes they're just fashion- I suspect we'll cringe at the sound of 2010's shimmery reverbs in 20 years like we cringe at eighties chorus now. 

Trouble is, it's not always clear which it is until it's too late

Gassage

In a rather paradoxical way, I kind of find that the simplest guitars sound best through the Mothership©

I have a lot of signal things going on and single coils, P90's deffo work best.

english_bob

Gassage said:

the Mothership©

George isn't sure. Did you say "Mothership: copyright"?

A5D5E5

Sporky said:

Sassafras said:

Too many effects can completely mask a guitar's core sound and playing technique.
Of course, I expect to be savagely pilloried for this opinion.

I think it depends what you mean by "too many".

Ring mod into reverb into fuzztortion into bitcrusher into delay into overdrive... probably. Also probably worth trying...

I use that as my basic jazz sound.  I don't get many gigs though so I think I need to upgrade my pickups.

Teetonetal

Sassafras said:

Too many effects can completely mask a guitar's core sound and playing technique.
Of course, I expect to be savagely pilloried for this opinion.

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever - but when you find someone who really knows how to create soundscapes it's jaw dropping in the same way that other people love monster technique.

english_bob

Teetonetal said:

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever

I'm not sure about no need, but very little. I think many of the sort of "seasoning" effects people like become much less useful in the context of a live band. I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

Ancient_Mariner

english_bob said:

Teetonetal said:

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever

I'm not sure about no need, but very little. I think many of the sort of "seasoning" effects people like become much less useful in the context of a live band. I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

That may well be true, although a lot will depend on what the guitarist is playing and why. If you're playing in a Stones cover band then maybe just a fuzz, but if you're playing something more ambient then a wider ranger of tools will be essential. Of course most of us just do stuff in between, and find a variety of effects both useful live and a way to stop us getting bored.

I get to play in a couple of different situations, and for one I like a board with modulations and other time based effects, while for another I may just want clean and dirty. It's interesting that even when I play an acoustic slide gig I'm always trying to find new sounds and different ways to play the same song, even though it's essentiall just a 'one sound' setup.

NelsonP

english_bob said:

I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

Have a LOL

Sporky

english_bob said:

 I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

You say that as if there's something wrong with a posh wank...

english_bob

Sporky said:

english_bob said:

 I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

You say that as if there's something wrong with a posh wank...

Whatever greases your pole

english_bob

Ancient_Mariner said:

english_bob said:

Teetonetal said:

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever

I'm not sure about no need, but very little. I think many of the sort of "seasoning" effects people like become much less useful in the context of a live band. I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

That may well be true, although a lot will depend on what the guitarist is playing and why. If you're playing in a Stones cover band then maybe just a fuzz, but if you're playing something more ambient then a wider ranger of tools will be essential. Of course most of us just do stuff in between, and find a variety of effects both useful live and a way to stop us getting bored.

I'm absolutely not saying that there isn't a use for fancy delays and reverbs. I use both in what I like to think are the appropriate contexts, but I find that when playing with a halfway decent, well rehearsed band a lot of the "lubrication" that those effects provide on a solo electric guitar aren't as necessary, and that some of the detail (whether the "tape" delay you're recreating is an Echoplex or a Space Echo etc) is lost.

I just wonder whether the serial flippers of the delay world- the guys who sold their DD-3 for a DL-4, then flipped the DL-4 for a DD-20, then sold that for a Nova Delay, then sold that for a Timefactor, then sold that for an Empress, then sold that for a Timeline, sold that for the Free The Tone delay, then sold that for a DD-500, then sold that for a Nemesis etc- ever actually play those things in front of an audience, or just use them to "lubricate" their solo bedroom adventures.

Full disclosure: I've owned a total of nine different delay pedals, not counting the multi-effects. I'm on my fourth "super" delay. Make of that what you will.

Dave_Vader

I have found that all my guitars sound the same through my digitech Bass-Synth-Wah yes

fretmeister

Dave_Vader said:

I have found that all my guitars sound the same through my digitech Bass-Synth-Wah yes

I use that pedal a lot on bass.

And I can still tell the difference. Not so much in the sound itself, it is a synth after all, but in the way the filter responds. But even that isn't as big a difference as swapping between flat and wound strings, or different pickup positions.

Ancient_Mariner

english_bob said:

Ancient_Mariner said:

english_bob said:

Teetonetal said:

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever

I'm not sure about no need, but very little. I think many of the sort of "seasoning" effects people like become much less useful in the context of a live band. I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

That may well be true, although a lot will depend on what the guitarist is playing and why. If you're playing in a Stones cover band then maybe just a fuzz, but if you're playing something more ambient then a wider ranger of tools will be essential. Of course most of us just do stuff in between, and find a variety of effects both useful live and a way to stop us getting bored.

I'm absolutely not saying that there isn't a use for fancy delays and reverbs. I use both in what I like to think are the appropriate contexts, but I find that when playing with a halfway decent, well rehearsed band a lot of the "lubrication" that those effects provide on a solo electric guitar aren't as necessary, and that some of the detail (whether the "tape" delay you're recreating is an Echoplex or a Space Echo etc) is lost.

I just wonder whether the serial flippers of the delay world- the guys who sold their DD-3 for a DL-4, then flipped the DL-4 for a DD-20, then sold that for a Nova Delay, then sold that for a Timefactor, then sold that for an Empress, then sold that for a Timeline, sold that for the Free The Tone delay, then sold that for a DD-500, then sold that for a Nemesis etc- ever actually play those things in front of an audience, or just use them to "lubricate" their solo bedroom adventures.

Full disclosure: I've owned a total of nine different delay pedals, not counting the multi-effects. I'm on my fourth "super" delay. Make of that what you will.

Most of the time I play with just a keyboard player in a small environment, and the subtleties of what chorus pedal or whether I'm using my Carbon copy or a cheap analogue delay (both on the board) make an obvious difference. Sometimes I play with a full band in a big auditorium and it can be difficult sometimes to even tell whether the chorus is on or not. Yes, I'd agree.

Disclosure: I own 4 delay pedals and 3 reverbs, but I'm happy with what I use now and am pensioning off the stuff I don't use (nice Dano PB&J for sale in the classifieds ).

Garthy

english_bob said:

Teetonetal said:

I would argue that many people have practically no need for fx what so ever

I'm not sure about no need, but very little. I think many of the sort of "seasoning" effects people like become much less useful in the context of a live band. I have my suspicions that the trend for ever-fancier delays and reverbs is basically a sonic posh wank for bedroom guitarists up and down the land. 

I suspect there is a lot of truth in that. I can tell a joke to an audience, do a speech or tell a union gathering some rather bad news to a hostile crowd, however put a guitar in my hands and I turn to stone, rooted to the spot in fear. Hence being a domestic player where the soft furnishings do their best to smother you and suck the life out whatever noise comes out of the small cheap amp that is still too loud on setting 3. Yes I probably need a bit of seasoning more than you do if you're playing in good venues where you get to push a valve amp and the natural acoustics add to your flavour.

On a rig rundown for Alice Cooper's band one of the guys says he always plays in a venue so large he doesn't need a reverb pedal on his board, which reinforces your point.

I always wonder if there is an art forum where artists who exhibit in galleries look down their noses scornfully at those who paint for themselves in their conservatories.

TTBZ

I find that I sound the same on any guitar because I'll just adjust things to make it sound like my main guitar. This is one of the reasons I decided to sell my 2nd guitar actually - I thought what's the point in having 2 around that I've made to sound basically the same. I don't like it when they sound too different for some reason.