Are Marshall amps poor quality

TTBZ

Marshall has a design store where you can order custom tolex/grille etc options

Personally I like the DSL series, my mates old JCM2000 sounded great through a good cab. Just got to be careful with the gain. Johan Segeborn did a video of the new one vs an old JMP and the DSL held up really well I thought - actually sounded a bit warmer and fuller.

monquixote

I think if they did do a modern jcm 800 a lot of people would be disappointed as people are used to amps having much more gain.

Also for those people who want a well made inexpensive jtm 45 with power scaling then it exists and is made by fender as the bass breaker 45

Reverend

monquixote said:

I think if they did do a modern jcm 800 a lot of people would be disappointed as people are used to amps having much more gain.

Also for those people who want a well made inexpensive jtm 45 with power scaling then it exists and is made by fender as the bass breaker 45

They are used to more gain, but the 800 and an EQ is all you really need for heavy music. I've seen so many bands use far too much gain over the years. 

monquixote

Reverend said:

monquixote said:

I think if they did do a modern jcm 800 a lot of people would be disappointed as people are used to amps having much more gain.

Also for those people who want a well made inexpensive jtm 45 with power scaling then it exists and is made by fender as the bass breaker 45

They are used to more gain, but the 800 and an EQ is all you really need for heavy music. I've seen so many bands use far too much gain over the years. 

Totally agree 

Loads of modern amps have lead channels that have more gain than you'd use for a metal sound by half way up the dial.

Haych

monquixote said:

Reverend said:

monquixote said:

I think if they did do a modern jcm 800 a lot of people would be disappointed as people are used to amps having much more gain.

Also for those people who want a well made inexpensive jtm 45 with power scaling then it exists and is made by fender as the bass breaker 45

They are used to more gain, but the 800 and an EQ is all you really need for heavy music. I've seen so many bands use far too much gain over the years. 

Totally agree 

Loads of modern amps have lead channels that have more gain than you'd use for a metal sound by half way up the dial.

Haha!  All of this ^ is so true.  A buddy of mine bought the EVH LBX mini head which has two channels: ludicrous gain and uber ludicrous gain.  He loves it, I quite liked it on channel one at about 10 o'clock on the gain dial.  How much gain do you actually need anyway?!

Collings

The problem the manufactures face is they add the ability to get lots of gain at low volumes to make playing in the average house or demoing in store enjoyable however this does not usually translate when your using an amp in the real world gigging with a band.

I suspect if Marshall made a JCM 800 now that a good many people would be disappointed trying it out at low volume in a store.

roberty

Hey how is the little Jubilee Silver Jubilee 2525c and 2525h reissue, in terms of quality and construction?

Collings

I had one of these and I would not comment on the cct design not being a tech but I thought it looked ok in terms of build and component quality but very expensive for what it was which I suppose is the result of building it in the uk. I guess it would be half the price had it been made in China using equivalent parts and construction.

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote said:

I think if they did do a modern jcm 800 a lot of people would be disappointed as people are used to amps having much more gain.

Also for those people who want a well made inexpensive jtm 45 with power scaling then it exists and is made by fender as the bass breaker 45

It doesn't look right though. Perfectly nice, but it ain't a Marshall. 

I agree though. Fender have proved it can be done. It's a nice amp. 

AllthegearNoidea

normula1 said:

english_bob said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

A JTM45 ish channel and a jcm800 channel in one amp, with a good effects loop and a well built pcb with a good layout. 

Someone here reckons this is what the Laney Lionheart is- with a different power section (who can turn up a 50-100W Marshall these days anyway?)

I can't say whether they have a well built or laid out PCB, but I think the effects loop on the current Chinese ones is OK.

That was me, and the pre-amp pretty much is
The original version has a parallel loop but that's fairly easy to swap to serial and it and the reverb are solid state.

Well I stayed away from marshall after reading the less than stellar comments here and bought a used laney lionheart l5t-112 today from @mfin who was a pleasure to deal with. Original issue of this amp with the spring reverb etc. Does a very good marshall sound at low volume. Very happy

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/76386/fs-laney-lionheart-l5t-112-as-new#latest

4114Effects

Just had a DSL401 combo in for repair. Usual problem, bridge rectifier for the preamp valve heaters is under specified and inadequately cooled, starts to melt the solder from the pcb and stops the amp working after 30 minutes or so of use ... new BR with heatsink should cure it, but shocking that they were allowed to leave the factory like this. 

ICBM

4114Effects said:

Just had a DSL401 combo in for repair. Usual problem, bridge rectifier for the preamp valve heaters is under specified and inadequately cooled, starts to melt the solder from the pcb and stops the amp working after 30 minutes or so of use ... new BR with heatsink should cure it, but shocking that they were allowed to leave the factory like this. 

I don't bother with a new one if it's still working - they always are as far as I've found - I just clench the pins over underneath the board to stop them coming loose, resolder and fit a good big heatsink. Never had one come back yet.

I also fit safety bias feed resistors across the master volume pot - you can connect them between the jumper wires behind the pot easily - and add a couple of grommets around the two upper rear chassis bolts to increase the cooling gap. That takes care of the majority of the problems. And I solder the speaker connections, although I know some people don't like to do that.

roberty

Collings said:

I had one of these and I would not comment on the cct design not being a tech but I thought it looked ok in terms of build and component quality but very expensive for what it was which I suppose is the result of building it in the uk. I guess it would be half the price had it been made in China using equivalent parts and construction.

I was wondering if the price would correlate witb good quality parts etc

rico

I just got a used Ceriatone JCM800 2204HW yesterday and it is bloody awesome. If you can get your head around the fact it doesn't say Marshall on it I would heavily recommend it. 

I will do a NAD post later. 

4114Effects

ICBM said:

4114Effects said:

Just had a DSL401 combo in for repair. Usual problem, bridge rectifier for the preamp valve heaters is under specified and inadequately cooled, starts to melt the solder from the pcb and stops the amp working after 30 minutes or so of use ... new BR with heatsink should cure it, but shocking that they were allowed to leave the factory like this. 

I don't bother with a new one if it's still working - they always are as far as I've found - I just clench the pins over underneath the board to stop them coming loose, resolder and fit a good big heatsink. Never had one come back yet.

I also fit safety bias feed resistors across the master volume pot - you can connect them between the jumper wires behind the pot easily - and add a couple of grommets around the two upper rear chassis bolts to increase the cooling gap. That takes care of the majority of the problems. And I solder the speaker connections, although I know some people don't like to do that.

I had to replace the two 10000uf caps anyway, so board had to come off. New BR is stood an inch proud of the board with a heatsink bolted to it now. 

Will look into the bias feed resistors and take onboard the advice of grommeting the rear bolts though, cheers!

Danny1969

I still have a lot of time for Marshall, it's always been my sound mostly and I admire the man and the legend he built. 
The trouble is building anything in this country is expensive, a recent tour round the factory was great but I could see straight away the huge overheads it has and the relatively small output for the size of the square footage. It makes you wonder how much longer the MK factory will be there for before all manufacturing is moved east 

I don't understand the bad designs though .... even on the tiny scale I made and sell things if something breaks you learn from it and change it so it doesn't happen again. 

Maybe part of the problem is the modern way we design things ....... building the circuit in software and running the Spice simulation ..... does that sim really take in account things like HT volts  bleeding through the PCB ...... leg'ed through hole components that would normally be fine failing because they are getting hot AND vibrating for hours on top of a 4 x 12" speaker .....  I don't know I've only ever built relitivilty low (3v to 80V ish ) circuits  ?

It isn't just Marshall though, I see shit designs every day on my bench repairing things. Holbart dishwasher PCB's using cheap relays to switch rinse and drain pumps when it would be far more reliable to do it via Triacs. Samsung phones using a 29p micro USB port on a £400 phone ... which "no shit sherlock" breaks ... and oh yeah now I gotta remove the poxy screen with hot air to replace it.
Behringer products with the worlds worse SMPS units blowing up....Asus laptop DC sockets always breaking in the same place because one part can move and the other can't.
 Fender HRD resistors desoldering themselves from the PCB ... Ashdown pots constantly crackling and failing ... where do those guys buy their pots from ? Presonus using a 30p consumer firewire port designed for infrequent use on a professional mixing desks designed for constant use ... they put 2 of em on there to give you some chance but of course both break cos both are equally shit.
 Mackie SRM sub volume controls snapping off because the design guy made the knob  long enough to protrude past the cabinet recess!  Roland SPD sampling pads false triggering because the ribbon cables are sandwiched between the earthed chassis and the pads on something the designers KNEW was going to be hit constantly !! 

I have taken hundreds of photo's of stuff on my bench being repaired over the years, I don't know why but they may come in use to someone else at some point

newi123

The really sad thing about this thread is that all of us WANT to buy a Marshall. It`s not like they don`t have a market place.............. 

Like many others I get my day to day `marshallesque` gigging kicks somewhere else - Jet City in my case. It does show that it can be done.

I was lucky enough to meet Jim Marshall at the Class 5 launch - didn`t want a selfie or a signature, Just wanted to say thanks. Literally all of the music I grew up on was powered by Marshall (and hairspray, but that`s another thread)

So why don`t they get it right? Who knows. With regards to the design I don`t believe Jim was the engineer was he? Maybe when an engineer is in charge more attention is paid to design? Also, it`s prob a great case as to why you shouldn`t have your family run your business when you retire!

I don`t think they`ll get it right anytime soon unfortunately. I had a conversation with my local dealer about how bad the MA amps were when they came out. He had had the same conversation many times with his rep. If they haven`t taken onboard feedback by now, what`s going to change?

Haych

IMHO the problem stems from the amps being built to a price point first with any engineering consideration taking lesser priority. 

The guys at Marshall want to build an amp and it has to retail for X pounds so they have to build it for X - Y% to make a profit. 

That then becomes the engineering brief, so cost has to be saved wherever possible to get the product out the door and into the stores at the desired price. 

Like I say, that's only my assumption though. 

darthed1981

Haych said:

That then becomes the engineering brief, so cost has to be saved wherever possible to get the product out the door and into the stores at the desired price.

Will definitely be the case with amps like MG and Code.  The Code 25 for example retails typically for about £190, when VAT, retailer profit etc. are taken off, Marshall probably get about £100 of that, tops.  The reality is you won't get craftmanship for that price.  You will however get a solid mass market product.

MG are unfairly bashed IMHO, as long as you go open eyed into a purchase knowing that they are a bit overpriced because of the name, and that solid-state is never going to sound as good at high volumes as tube amps, then they are acceptable for what they are.  The 100w ones are probably a bit pointless, but pretty much everyone has demand for big giggable versions of their praccy amps.  Blackstar, for example brought out 100w and 150w versions of the ID Core, and they sell.

The expensive models are different though, no doubt there is market research that goes into it, but a young guitar band with an advance will want the Marshall name and will pay for it. 

The sad fact is unfortunately that on a UK made small volume product that poor quality is likely to be the mark of people who can't be bothered to do good work.  It is likely, and this is applicable to US made as well, that if you deliberately set out to make a high quality product in the far east they will knock the quality out of the park for less money!  The Squier classic vibe series is a good example. 

Give the far east the materials and specs used on the US Fender professional series and they will make instruments of identical or superior quality for half the money.  Whisper it, but this is the real reason why things are difficult for the working classes right now in the US and UK.

ICBM

newi123 said:

I was lucky enough to meet Jim Marshall at the Class 5 launch - didn`t want a selfie or a signature, Just wanted to say thanks. Literally all of the music I grew up on was powered by Marshall (and hairspray, but that`s another thread)

So why don`t they get it right? Who knows. With regards to the design I don`t believe Jim was the engineer was he?

No. Jim's only real contribution - although it is a big one! - was the design of the angled 4x12" cabinet. He was a woodworker, not an electronics technician, and knew nothing about the circuitry - Ken Bran, Dudley Craven and later many others were employed to do that… although it's debatable how much they knew either, since all their good designs were basically copied from other companies with some changes which tend to imply a lot of it was luck!

The first Marshall that wasn't a copy of a Fender or a Watkins and which was really any good was the 2203 - and even that they didn't get right first go, the earliest 2204s (which came first) are different and weak-sounding. And after that… hmmmm.