Am I losing the plot?!

simonbeckwith · June 2016

Probably....
Recently (mid January) sold my lovely Vox AC30 Cream Edition (slightly regret it) and decided to go down the modelling route for a few reasons.
Lack of space at home now with 2 little'uns
Need for headphone practicing at home as per above reason
Wanted something more compact/portable
The other guitarist in the covers band I play in from time to time went out and bough an Atomic Amplifire, was blown away by it and on paper it looked ideal. He came round, I tinkered and tweaked his knobs (Ooer!!) and was pleasantly surprised. It ticked all the boxes, had plenty of fx to keep me happy if I chose to use them, the right amp models and more importantly sounded great.
Now 5 months on, I'm a dab hand at building my own presets, have bought a couple of preset packs and various packs of cabinet impulse responses. Overall it still sounds good but I seem to be tweaking tones 95% of the time I do get chance to play, rather than actually playing. Also, GAS is setting in as it always does and all I can think about is a nice valve combo with a couple of pedals.
Would it be crazy to ditch it and go back to a valve setup? Or is it a case of us guitarists are simply never happy?
Totally all I'm after is a Plexi/800 with a boost. A hint of delay. Nothing major. And that's all I'm really using in the Amplifire.
Budget for new gear would be around the £700 mark once all is sold if I go down that route, OR, stick with it.

photek · June 2016

You are welcome to borrow a valve combo from me for a couple of months if you want to find out mate. I reckon that Atomic is the right thing to have for you at the moment. When you are out gigging every other weekend then get another 'big rig'.

Just my opinion of course but the offer stands

simonbeckwith · June 2016

Cheers dude, much appreciated. I may take you up on the offer before I lose my mind

Chalky · June 2016

Our brains are wired to handle simple feedback loops, especially for physical activity. When we do something we like quick feedback that its going as expected.

The problem with modellers is that we can flick between a multitude of presets, carry out the same muscle activities, and get Different feedback. This is disconcerting for our brains. If it happened in driving your car your brain would shout Danger! Something wrong with car!

I remember driving an old Mini again after many years in modern cars, and really enjoying skittering round bends with the steering wheel shaking but telling me exactly what the tyres were doing. Back in my modern car that went round corners much faster with pin sharp prescision I realised how I missed that level of primitive, straight to brain feedback.

I went back to amps from my Kemper because to get what I want out of the amp I have to fight with it a bit. But my brain actually likes that as its back to learning kinesthetically.

So no, you are not losing the plot.

x-valves4ever · June 2016

I have fluctuated between a simple set up and complex gear of all types and I always come back to a stand alone combo and my guitar as the most satisfying.....G&L USA Legacy into a Fender Deluxe Reverb with an overdrive pedal for that extra bit of push is so easy to live with, has a great sound that rarely needs tweaking and I can just get on with playing.....

ICBM · June 2016

The need for constant tweaking seems to be a feature of modellers. It's something I find very frustrating too - I think it's because they don't respond in the same natural way a valve amp does... they're too much of a snapshot of a particular fixed response from an amp, so no matter how carefully and right you've dialled it in, if you change what you're doing with the guitar then the sound isn't right any more and you have to tweak it.

I've noticed this with more or less every digital modeller I've used, and the more your ear becomes tuned in to it the harder it is to leave it alone. I've just sold my Vox AD30 - which I really liked to begin with - because of it. OK that's not an expensive modeller, but it's not a bad one either.

Analogue solid state seems to be somewhere between the two.

So far the only modellers I've played which didn't seem to be like that are the Yamaha THR100 - but I didn't play that for very long - and the Blackstar ID60, but I didn't like the voicing of that very much overall, so it's possible I just instinctively stopped trying to tweak it.

Sassafras · June 2016

Admittedly, my experience of digital gear is fairly limited but without exception every time I've used it I've absolutely hated it: scroll up, scroll down, left, right and centre, menu this, menu that. They're a bloody nightmare that detract from your playing in the constant search for a slightly better sound which never quite materialises.

I've lived quite happily without them for over 50 years.

It's just hype that makes us think we need stuff like this.

We've been brainwashed into believing that they're more convenient and faster to work with when in fact the opposite is the reality.

@ICBM hit the nail on the head.

JezWynd · June 2016

They're a bloody nightmare that detract from your playing in the constant search for a slightly better sound which never quite materialises.

Wisdom awarded.

Cabicular · June 2016

It takes a certain amount of discipline to get away with using modellers
In my mind the way to do it is find a good model that you like then stick to it
No matter how tempting it is to change amp and setup for every section of every song it doesn't sound natural
If you went to see a band and the guitarist had 50 different amps on stage that he switched back and forth along every song you would find it very disconcerting ... Yet with modellers this is what I see a lot of people doing
Not to mention every time you change something (like guitars) all 50 amps would sound slightly different

I pick one amp (two at most) that I like and then build my sound around that
In the Helix I use the Soldano Clean and provide all my drive using pedals
It sounds great because that's what I did in the real world so I know how it works

Just because we have all these amps available it doesn't mean we need to use them

It's like turning up all your pedals to max.. After all I've paid for that gain, I'm going to use it all

ICBM · June 2016

I did that with the Vox - I only used two sounds (it actually only has two channel memories, so it would have been difficult otherwise!), the Black 2x12 clean and the AC15 dirty - but it was still impossible to get either of them set so the EQ and gain didn't need constantly tweaking to make them sound right as I changed what I was playing - even with the same guitar. The dirty worse than the clean, but both to some extent.

OK, this is not an expensive modeller - but I honestly think it's one of the better ones. And I had upgraded the speaker as well.

I decided to sell it because my old Peavey Special transistor amp just sounds and responds more naturally, even though the actual distortion sound itself is more like a soft fuzz than an overdriven valve amp.

Cabicular · June 2016

It's maybe a little disengenious of me
With the Helix most of my sound comes from the Thorpy gunshot I have looped in.
And most of the power amp sound comes from the pair of Fryette Powerstations that feed the Neo Creambacks
So the only thing I'm really modelling for my onstage sound is the eq of the Soldano
FOH has a couple of miced can models but to
Me that's just an improvement on the couple of redboxes I used to use instead of micing the cabs

kjdowd · June 2016

Cabicular;1097099" said:
It's maybe a little disengenious of me
With the Helix most of my sound comes from the Thorpy gunshot I have looped in.
And most of the power amp sound comes from the pair of Fryette Powerstations that feed the Neo Creambacks
So the only thing I'm really modelling for my onstage sound is the eq of the Soldano
FOH has a couple of miced can models but to
Me that's just an improvement on the couple of redboxes I used to use instead of micing the cabs

I think that is the beauty of the helix, though. I use it as a modeller at home for practice and recording, and as a multifx live 4cm into a 2 channel tube amp. If the amps goes at a gig, I can always use a modelled patch directly into the pa.

mgaw · June 2016

i think constantly fucking about with gear and constantly looking for something new instead of practicing may be the dividing line between becoming an outstanding musician rather than a good guitarist/hobbyist.....or in my case shite

Drew_TNBD · June 2016

You've hit peak modeller. The point where objective reality comes smashing into your ear drums as you realise.... valves sound better.

RandallFlagg · June 2016

Don't see it as one thing or the other, get both. I had an AXE-FX II and Atomic CLR and sold them as I was fed up with endless tweaking. I now have a Victory V40 and a Pedaltrain Nano with a drive, delay, reverb, tuner and looper and love the simplicity.

But, I do miss the ability to get a good sound at lower volume, the V40 needs the master volume up to sound at it's best and it's loud even on the attenuated settings.

I have an old Line 6 PODXT for headphone practice but plan to upgrade to a Fractal AX8 or Atomic Amplifire next year.

simonbeckwith · June 2016

valves4ever said:

I have fluctuated between a simple set up and complex gear of all types and I always come back to a stand alone combo and my guitar as the most satisfying.....G&L USA Legacy into a Fender Deluxe Reverb with an overdrive pedal for that extra bit of push is so easy to live with, has a great sound that rarely needs tweaking and I can just get on with playing.....

Perfect!

simonbeckwith · June 2016

ICBM said:

The need for constant tweaking seems to be a feature of modellers. It's something I find very frustrating too - I think it's because they don't respond in the same natural way a valve amp does... they're too much of a snapshot of a particular fixed response from an amp, so no matter how carefully and right you've dialled it in, if you change what you're doing with the guitar then the sound isn't right any more and you have to tweak it.

I've noticed this with more or less every digital modeller I've used, and the more your ear becomes tuned in to it the harder it is to leave it alone. I've just sold my Vox AD30 - which I really liked to begin with - because of it. OK that's not an expensive modeller, but it's not a bad one either.

Analogue solid state seems to be somewhere between the two.

So far the only modellers I've played which didn't seem to be like that are the Yamaha THR100 - but I didn't play that for very long - and the Blackstar ID60, but I didn't like the voicing of that very much overall, so it's possible I just instinctively stopped trying to tweak it.

I think you're on to something. It's VERY good at what it does, but it seems to just be lacking that little spark ya know?

simonbeckwith · June 2016

Drew_fx said:

You've hit peak modeller. The point where objective reality comes smashing into your ear drums as you realise.... valves sound better.

You may be right mate!

simonbeckwith · June 2016

Some great responses here guys, many thanks.

The Amplifire has so many pluses, or tailing and ability to practice at home are perfect for what I need at the mo. I'm not sure I'd be as happy to gig live with it in the covers band, and my old originals band has just been booked for a gig in November so that may be firing up again and becoming more frequent. In that situation a full range pa isn't something that's often provided at small gigs unfortunately so I would need a 30-50w amp of som sort for that occasion, and tbh, right now I'm not in a financial position to have both :,(

A compact, loud combo may be the key.....

ICBM · June 2016

The Peavey Special and the Marshall Mosfet Lead 100 are both compact, loud to the point of causing physical pain and can be had for around £100 each, or less.

olafgarten · June 2016

I've found the opposite, I've just bought a zoom g5 and after a few hours of tweaking I've decided that I like the Fender Combo with a Big Muff, a Tube Screamer and a boost. I also throw some delay in at times. It sounds great, and does have a dynamic feel. Sometimes I have to make slight adjustments but I've set the pedal to control the amp gain and a few small tweaks gets me to the right place.

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