You pick up knowledge on here, but sometimes you realise you haven't learned everything when curve balls come at you.
So, Valves? You get used to 2xEL34 producing around 50 watts, then you see it is possible to get some 20 Watt Amps with the same.
I get 50 Watts from 2X6L6 in my Mesa Express 5:50, but 5 Watts from 1 X 6L6. Sometimes you only get 35 Watts from 2X6L6 in other amps.
Another genuine question.....Do all EL84 Amps generally sound the same? I'm sure they don't obviously. I love my Maz, but seeing as I'm looking to grab another Amp in the 20 Watt region, if I got another amp running EL84's I'd want something a little different, hard task maybe since the Maz 18 covers quite a bit of ground.
Don't Know, just edumacate me further please.
Thanks.
Only a Fool Would Say That.
Comments
True @uncledick
But what sourcery is it that reduces the Wattage from what is normally 50 watts to 20 watts with 2xEL34, is it the Transformer Design, Voltage, this is where my knowledge ends.
The output valve type has very little effect on the sound of an amp, but there are *some* characteristics of the valve which influence it. But if you were to list EL84 amps, you could have things as radically different-sounding as the Vox AC30, Fender Blues Junior, Peavey Classic 50 and Mesa DC-3, none of which sound remotely like each other… but once you're familiar with them, you may be able to hear a type of midrange 'ring' to them when pushed hard, which is quite different from (say) a 6L6 amp.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I had nearly a lucky guess with "Voltages", obviously with the other circuit changes you mentioned, it's good to learn although there is much to learn.
As to the other stuff, yep, have learned on here and elsewhere about "characteristics" of Valve types and certain tones and a lot of the amp sound coming also from the pre-amp/circuit design etc.
Definitely find that the Maz slices through the mix with that chime or mid characteristic. The Mesa was quite good too, but not the same, more defined high end and tight but boomy low end, not as much mid spike, 6L6 trait I assume.
The Maz 18 is insanely loud, we rehearse in a School Hall (Bassist is a Caretaker) which is 40ft x 60ft and a high ceiling, against a Drummer, another Guitarist, Vocals and Bass, the Maz 18 Master was just below 10 O'Clock and the Volume(Gain) around 9 O'Clock or smidge above.
They sounded identical.
I have absolutely no expertise in this area though so I may be talkong rot.
I think I can also detect an EL84 based on the sound. There's something about the valve that is discernible, but it maybe that I've only ever played cathode biased versions and its that that I'm hearing. I did put EL84's in my Dumble clone using the THD Yellow Jackets and I could hear it there.
ie you can hear the difference, but you can't turn a Marshall into a Fender or vice versa just by swapping to the other type of output valves.
My Mesa will run both 6L6s and EL34s, and comparing them was interesting - when the amp was set for a sort of 'neutral' sound, there wasn't a huge difference, but when it was deliberately dialled in to be more 'Fendery', the 6L6s sounded much better, and when dialled in to be more 'Marshally', the EL34s did. So they seem to reinforce the voicing of the amp rather than dictate it, to me.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I have to say, since buying the Maz, I am blown away by it's tone, it can shift dramatically. I think I'm nerding out regarding OT Valves, but it's just cos I want something that sits inbetween my Bogner GF45 and Maz 18.
I do have the hots for a Dirty Shirley Mini at the moment.
My theory is that in the quest to reduce noise, they've overly-filtered the power supply among other things, and killed the dynamics. The reason I think it's this is that to me, even the all-valve, high-voltage amps they make sound like that.
I think the things that make a valve amp sound like a valve amp are largely the flaws in the technology, from a hi-fi point of view - not just the distortion but the power supply sag, the low damping factor and even the background noise. All these add 'life' to the sound in my opinion. (Yes, even the noise.)
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I had a Cornell romany Plus for a few years, lovely amp but I wanted it to sound a bit more British. So I swapped the 6L6 for an EL34, it got louder, I swapped that for a 6650 it ot louder still. Changing the Jensen to a V30 to a Tone Tubby made the biggest difference. Eventually I sold it and bought an amp I was happy with (and then bought another).
The loudness thing is partially the type of valve (a GE6L6 was not as loud as the stock Sovtek) the class A thing (not going there) the speaker (huge variance) and the manufacturer marketing (aka lies) . THe Mesa F30 cannot be 30w.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein