Life choices...

JDE · August 2017

I've grown to dislike my job. So much so, that next year I'm going to start training as a carpenter (without telling anyone at work), with the aim to throwing the towel in at my current job in 2020 and becoming a chippie. I can't just go now, too much riding on my current wage, so I do feel abit stuck, and know how you feel.

Cabicular · August 2017

I sometimes forget how lucky I am. I have to be careful here not to be smug because I do have a lot of empathy with some of the folks here
I worked in a factory punching bits out of plastic screen printed fascias with a ball point pen.
Sitting doing that 8 hours a day in a room full of older people who had done it most of their lives and who just bitched and moaned about payday when they could go and piss their wages down the pub
I don't look down on those folks, I've got all the respect in the world for them.
Then I sold computers over the telephone
Then I sold training courses over the phone
hated hated HATED telesales. Used to dread it all night, hate it all day and then dread it all weekend.
I used to joke about driving my car into a pillar on the M8 but I'm not sure how much I was joking.
But one thing that saved me from all of that was I had a plan. I had to change it and rework it but I've never done a job without also having a goal of some sort
In the factory I was trying to raise enough money to leave the country and I did for several years.
When I was selling training I was taking the courses home and going through them at night. Sitting the exams on my own time with my own money
When I moved from sales into training I was preparing myself to be a freelance trainer by picking up all the difficult hard to teach courses
That wasn't going to work out so I then started moving towards being a consultant.
Bit if to-ing and fro-big and ended up starting my own company.
nowadays I pretty much work when I want to (but occasionally get dragged in when things are busy)
I have time and financial security to not really have to worry about paying the monthlies.
Like any business it could all go wrong tomorrow so I try not to take it for granted but I do realise I'm very very lucky. Threads like this are a good reminder
So if you're still with me why am I indulging myself in this self congratulating typewank? Just to set the scene to allow me to give you two bits of advice that have kept me sane over the years and help me get what I wanted it of life.

Always have a plan .... and
its a long road when there is nothing on the Horizon

I hope you are able to work towards your goals
being realistic we never really get what we want but you should strive to find a compromise you can live with.

holnrew · August 2017

Cabicular said:

I sometimes forget how lucky I am. I have to be careful here not to be smug because I do have a lot of empathy with some of the folks here
I worked in a factory punching bits out of plastic screen printed fascias with a ball point pen.
Sitting doing that 8 hours a day in a room full of older people who had done it most of their lives and who just bitched and moaned about payday when they could go and piss their wages down the pub
I don't look down on those folks, I've got all the respect in the world for them.
Then I sold computers over the telephone
Then I sold training courses over the phone
hated hated HATED telesales. Used to dread it all night, hate it all day and then dread it all weekend.
I used to joke about driving my car into a pillar on the M8 but I'm not sure how much I was joking.
But one thing that saved me from all of that was I had a plan. I had to change it and rework it but I've never done a job without also having a goal of some sort
In the factory I was trying to raise enough money to leave the country and I did for several years.
When I was selling training I was taking the courses home and going through them at night. Sitting the exams on my own time with my own money
When I moved from sales into training I was preparing myself to be a freelance trainer by picking up all the difficult hard to teach courses
That wasn't going to work out so I then started moving towards being a consultant.
Bit if to-ing and fro-big and ended up starting my own company.
nowadays I pretty much work when I want to (but occasionally get dragged in when things are busy)
I have time and financial security to not really have to worry about paying the monthlies.
Like any business it could all go wrong tomorrow so I try not to take it for granted but I do realise I'm very very lucky. Threads like this are a good reminder
So if you're still with me why am I indulging myself in this self congratulating typewank? Just to set the scene to allow me to give you two bits of advice that have kept me sane over the years and help me get what I wanted it of life.

Always have a plan .... and
its a long road when there is nothing on the Horizon

I hope you are able to work towards your goals
being realistic we never really get what we want but you should strive to find a compromise you can live with.

I don't know about OP, but I found that very helpful.

mellowsun · August 2017

Cabicular said:

I then started moving towards being a consultant.
Bit if to-ing and fro-big and ended up starting my own company.

nowadays I pretty much work when I want to (but occasionally get dragged in when things are busy)
I have time and financial security to not really have to worry about paying the monthlies.

Thanks for sharing this @Cabicular ;, it's very inspiring. I'd love to know more about how you grew the consultancy business to the point of being financially secure.

I recently started a consultancy but I'm a long way from having it pay anywhere near what I was on as in the rat race.

Drew_TNBD · August 2017

I've been at the same company for nearly 10 years, doing a ton of stuff - tech support, qa, product specialist, manning the stand at NAMM, sorting out our studio and getting rid of a computer graveyard, audio engineering, sound recording, sound design, product design, drumming, editing, filming, and generally providing the bantah!

I've been incredibly lucky to have had some of the opportunities I've had. But I've hated it and found it stressful 90% of the time.

I think some people are just predisposed to feeling like that more than others - doesn't matter what job, or what choices they've made, or how long they've been doing those things... some people seem to cope, and others seem to flounder and wallow.

I'm somewhere between the two. If I don't keep myself busy, then the darkness sets in. That's my entire reason for being a musician in the first place.

Part of me would like to have a go at starting a business, but I wouldn't know where to start.

johnswiss · August 2017

Is dropping some hours/days an option? Me and the Mrs have gone part time to look after the kids (youngest is 1) so one of us is always home in the week. It was a daunting step, previously the amount we both had to ourselves each month after the joint account was fairly decent. Now we give ourselves 50 each a month, we've had to but feel it's worth it. Anything we do as a family is out of the joint account but if I want a night on the piss it's out of my monthly 50 allowance. Most of our friends are horrified at the thought of having so little to themselves, but whilst the kids are hard work, it's rewarding and it means not going to work every day. Luckily I bought enough guitars before to keep me sane and sell or trade to keep the gas fed. Mind you this probably wont be permanent, couple of years and I'll likely be back full time until I'm 70. Arse. But it's good while it's lasting.

Teetonetal · August 2017

Drew_TNBD said:

I've been at the same company for nearly 10 years, doing a ton of stuff - tech support, qa, product specialist, manning the stand at NAMM, sorting out our studio and getting rid of a computer graveyard, audio engineering, sound recording, sound design, product design, drumming, editing, filming, and generally providing the bantah!

I've been incredibly lucky to have had some of the opportunities I've had. But I've hated it and found it stressful 90% of the time.

I think some people are just predisposed to feeling like that more than others - doesn't matter what job, or what choices they've made, or how long they've been doing those things... some people seem to cope, and others seem to flounder and wallow.

I'm somewhere between the two. If I don't keep myself busy, then the darkness sets in. That's my entire reason for being a musician in the first place.

Part of me would like to have a go at starting a business, but I wouldn't know where to start.

See, your job sounds a billion times cooler and more interesting than mine. Yet from what you write I'm happier or more content.

Work for me is stress free, good hours, fairly well paid and enables me and my family to live a good comfortable life.

Yes it's as boring as hell but many other seemingly more interesting jobs are way worse. I tried being a musician. It made me miserable.

ESBlonde · August 2017

There are vids on yootoob about folks making a concerted effort to pay off the 30 year mortgage in 5-7 years and then having real choice. It takes a few changes and an approach you may not like so not for everyone. Worth a look though as achieving that goal in a sensible Timescale might give a different focus.

Grunfeld · August 2017

ESBlonde said:

...making a concerted effort to pay off the 30 year mortgage in 5-7 years and then having real choice. It takes a few changes...

Basically, that's what I did. The "few changes" were essentially living on cardboard and dust and working more. I reduced expenses to a minimum. I literally didn't put the heating on. If an appliance had an LED I'd turn it off. I'd live in a room with one economy bulb. Showered at work. Never went out unless it was to earn money playing gigs. Four years later, mortgage was paid off. Hard graft but wow, what freedom it brought.
And the little side hustles were paying off to the extent that I quit my regular job and found part-time gigs doing something I really enjoy. I like the variety and I love the work.
I loved @Cabicular 's story. I always said I coasted but I think I may have had more of a plan, perhaps. I've coasted towards stuff I love: two sorts of therapy, physio and hypno, and playing in a band. I know it's all meaningless ultimately, and could fall apart too but for me it feels right.

Danny1969 · August 2017

I've never had a plan. I started off in the building and decorating trade, then did all kinds of shit jobs, then went back to decorating with a bit of building and then got into computers. It was the nineties and there was big money in making IBM clones and selling them. I starting a company with another guy, we built PC' in my dining room and flogged em. Before long we took on a unit, then another unit, then another until we were employing 6 people and turning over half a million a year with a huge profit margin. Life then was extravagant, I drove a supercharged Jag, there wasn't much I couldn't afford.
Then I probably made the biggest mistake of my financial life .... not content with having a private studio on the side of the house I decided with my partners help to take on a huge costly unit and proceeded to gut it out and we build the largest commercial recording studio Portsmouth has ever had ....... trouble is the reason no one had ever built one that size before was there wan't much need for one .... and we lost a shitload of money ... bailing out after 5 years with our tails between our legs and empty pockets.
The 5 years in the studio though had enabled me to meet a lot of people and I started getting more and more offers to join money making bands either as a player or FOH sound. After a couple of years I realised you can actually gig for a living. It can get complicated diary wise but it's possible. I don't earn a fortune, far from it but it is by far the most fun job I've ever had. I can't even call it a job really because being in a pub doing something you love isn't really a job in the normal sense it's a privilege.

This time of year there's so much work on guitar I can pretty much leave it at that. When the festival season ends and wedding season ends the gigs aren't as plentiful so I do more freelance electronic repairs for various shops.
I earn less then a quarter now of what I did when I was selling computers but I'm so much happier. We spend more time at work then we do not working so to be happy your job needs to be something you love.

Cabicular · August 2017

mellowsun said:

Cabicular said:

I then started moving towards being a consultant.
Bit if to-ing and fro-big and ended up starting my own company.

nowadays I pretty much work when I want to (but occasionally get dragged in when things are busy)
I have time and financial security to not really have to worry about paying the monthlies.

Thanks for sharing this @Cabicular ;, it's very inspiring. I'd love to know more about how you grew the consultancy business to the point of being financially secure.

I recently started a consultancy but I'm a long way from having it pay anywhere near what I was on as in the rat race.

Slowly is the answer
it was just me and another guy at the start
we paid ourselves a modest wage and did some contract work. We saved enough to employee someone and he instantly improved cash flow but still body shopping. So we paid him 50K but contracted him out at the same rate as us (450 a day) if you take 216 billing days in a year and do some quick sums you can see that as long as we keep the utilisation up we make nearly 50K profit
enough to hire someone else on 50K and get them to generate another 50K in profit
pretty soon you 10 of you costing 500K and generating a 1m (except it costs More to run so realistically 300k is closer to the mark)
You take that 300K and hire some developers and write some apps that you sell pretty soon you have 5 developers on board generating 500K of work

There is a point where this stops scaling. And it's round about the 2M mark
at that point you have to shift into doing fixed price delivery based projects
so expensive resources leading them, cheaper resources fulfilling them
we also span up a managed services business doing support contracts around 100-200k p.a.
At this point I'm also very much leading the senior managers and doing next to no hands on work
As a consultant my potential is round about the 150K mark. As an MD (with the right people) I can spin up millions. So it's a case of doing what is sensible
we now turn over 7M plus employing 90 people.
still owned by me and the other guy, never borrowed a penny, no external funding, no bank facility and money in the bank.

cant say it was entirely plain sailing 2001 was a really bad year
2006 my wife died of cancer so I had to take time out of the business and 2007/2008 gave me more than a few sleepless nights. But by keeping my eye on the ball and always having a plan I've avoided having to make anyone redundant and pay people a very generous wage with really good perks. It is probably the best bit of it for me that nearly 100 people have a good job they enjoy because of me and by business partner.

I've been lucky and unlucky. The point is to hunker down and endure when the luck is bad but don't be afraid to take advantage of when the luck is good

I can't stress the endurance enough. The difference between people who succeed and people who don't is often a very small bit of endurance. If you hang on that little bit longer than everyone else the reward is disproportionately high

thomasross20 · August 2017

Big wow awarded @Cabicular.

My choices started back around the time I started to play guitar. I played furiously (lol) and wanted to study music. But a week trip to college to do engineering interested me (obviously I checked the prospectus for other things but they interest factor vs pay vs employment chances seemed a good balance). I went for engineering, which was the right choice. Got my 5 year Masters - it was tough at first because I originally did chemistry... so one tutor asked me if I was doing the right course, and it got my back up - I went on to get class prize and 4 other prizes, 90% of my grades high As. In fact my back was up back at school, too, as I remember I was playing so much guitar... I overheard my maths teacher commenting to somebody that if I didn't work harder I would find it tough to get into uni (or a comment along those lines) - it spurred me on. So sometimes I guess I need that.

After that I decided to take on an engineering doctorate, which comprised a PhD, MSc (system level integration for chip design), 4 MBA modules and industrial experience. I hated it. I started seeing Sheena around this time. Too many people pulling at me and in truth, although I like what I do, I'm not a super-geek... and the (feigned?) interest I needed for academia... it just wasn't happening, so Sheena made me brave enough to stand up and say "this isn't for me," which was a big, big thing. Quitting something like that is huge. I actually deferred after 2 years and made sure I got my MSc, which is how I have two Masters degrees.

It was a great decision. While I was at uni I had several summer placements (one was for an imaging company and I got a nice paper out of my later-MEng project linked to it, about a triple junction light-t-frequency photodiode converter) and then went to work for my present company. It felt like coming home, it was so right. Unlike most companies in the area (or in semiconductors), this one had no stock market pressures and wasn't involved in working for Apple (ugh). The job is/was different - a real mix of IC design, lab work, customer visits, lots of training in Switzerland, good people, working on getting big motors spinning with our chips, magnetics, power supplies - it's cool. Unfortunately I didn't bargain hard for salary... After 3 years I interviewed around the world and ended up staying here, at a different company, for a 40% rise! Overdue!

Things didn't work out there - 5 months of dogsbody verification - not good for an up-coming designer! So I left for my old company again! I must have been doing something right.. I've got a friend in each company so I know how things "are" and managed to help push for a 10% pension company contribution when I came back, for everybody. I got made senior, too - though I'm doing a principal job now and not getting the attention or money I know I should be... but at the same time, if I take that step up, I'd have to be prepared to take on even more responsibility, so I'm not sure....

You hit a ceiling in full-time work like that. You can just google it and see principal analogue guys stop at around £60-80k + bens in the UK (remember I'm not principal..!). Option then is to go into management (not sure it's for me and always been warned to stay technical) or try contracting for similar rates as per above, though largely in Europe. Or make a sideways move. Two people I know shifted into oil & gas (not sure about that now!) and were clearing 6 figures after 4 years or so - and that's not even offshore work. Downside - living in Aberdeen (no offence lol!!). Starting a company? Next to no chance in IC design.. maybe at a board level, but that's not quite what I do (wouldn't mind - actually a side move into systems engineering could be cool). There are too many "smart" people in IC design. Often I've wondered about shifting to another industry or area of engineering where instead of being just another thinker... I was THE thinker ... lol... but now I'm facing what @cabicular faced regarding his wife and my company have been good giving me time off. If it weren't for this, a life-changing career move would have been likely, but there are more important things. Sheena has given me the confidence to speak up and realise I have value and has truly been a bit of a driving force between me making career decisions and speaking up for this that and the other. My company are prepping to go public which is a shame.. it's one of the last great semiconductor companies. It's a 5 year plan, then likely a 3 year tie in... with no concrete promise of anything except 5-8 years of much harder work... when anybody could go to another established company now and get their share options (I've never had any, though the company I did my MSc with was bought out - the guys at the top made a couple million each... the designers who slogged (me, too..) for 12 hour days 6-7 days a week for 8+ years (2 years for me) got maybe £20k.... 100% not worth it... then my supervisor died of spinal cancer aged 33 having devoted his life to this company.. .and a young guy developed the same cancer aged 30 or so just one year back from the same company - never devote your life to the company!).

I wish I could have a story like these others but it's just regular full-time employment for me right now. My goal was always more "pay the mortgage off early" (yeah, right lol) which would give a bit more freedom (the most realistic and achievable goal for most people, I'm guessing). I don't mind being employed with all the security it brings, but I imagine taking a risk and running your own place is something else..

stickyfiddle · August 2017

This is something I go round and round on. We moved to the middle east 4.5 years ago, and overall it's been a positive thing.

Before, we were in London, I was a consultant in a failing firm, and MrsF was a trainee lawyer. When she qualified she got a job out here and I came with, and took 9 months to find a job for me (now a financial analyst). In the 3.5 years since we've managed to save 5 times what we would have in the same period had we stayed in London, which is fantastic. But it does mean I can't easily play music with like-minded people, and we can't see UK friends and family as often as we'd like. But it's also broadened us up to travelling to places I would never have dreamed of going growing up in a small town in Norfolk - my passport is double-size and already half full after 2 years...

I'm weighing up a job change at the moment as the current place is extremely corporate, and while everyone is making nice noises about my performance the pay/bonus/promotions that should be coming my way aren't happening, and it's the usual excuse of "we'll pick whichever metric you/your team/the firm hasn't knocked out of the park this year and tell you that's why we can't afford to pay you the market rate..."

Right now, we're trying to work out the end game. We'd love to go live in Canada, but MrsF can't work there without going through the full Canadian law training, which is multiple years. Returning to Oxford is attractive lifestyle-wise but neither of us can do what we do now there, so at the moment it would be a risk and a big step down in income. I think we'll continue here for at least another couple of years.

But I'd recommend it to anyone who wants a drastic change. It's terrifying at the start, and a huge upheaval, but if nothing else it's confirmed that adventure is good for you.

RandallFlagg · August 2017

I like the idea suggested above - have a goal and a plan to achieve it, a long term plan. Then apply resolve.

Resolve = enthusiasm, determination & patience

thomasross20 · August 2017

@stickyfiddle@ ;
I'm rooted here for some time now but that sounds brilliant...

Cabicular · August 2017

The only thing I would caution (from my own experience) sometimes it's tempting to change the external environment to try and fix internal problems
Im not saying that's the case with you Sticky it's just a general observation
i know a lot of people who think everything will be better if he move to the US or move to Oz but they just have the same issues in sunnier climates and more racism.
Sometimes it's a good opportunity just to wipe the slate clean and start over but you can do that equally well here and you often have a better support network around
The last thing I'll say is starting your own company isn't nearly as hard or scary as people think
Its actually really easy and can protect you from a lot of risk.
Takes a bit of research but it costs next to nothing and is easy to do

stickyfiddle · August 2017

Cabicular said:

The only thing I would caution (from my own experience) sometimes it's tempting to change the external environment to try and fix internal problems
Im not saying that's the case with you Sticky it's just a general observation
i know a lot of people who think everything will be better if he move to the US or move to Oz but they just have the same issues in sunnier climates and more racism.
Sometimes it's a good opportunity just to wipe the slate clean and start over but you can do that equally well here and you often have a better support network around
The last thing I'll say is starting your own company isn't nearly as hard or scary as people think
Its actually really easy and can protect you from a lot of risk.
Takes a bit of research but it costs next to nothing and is easy to do

I don't disagree with any of that. We weren't running away from London at all really, just spotting an opportunity to do something better. I know plenty of people who have come out here to get away from stuff and it doesn't usually make those guys happy.

57Deluxe · August 2017

...will be compromises with any decisions you take. But ultimately:

* If you want better health, junk the stress - is a silent killer.

* If you want money then work, but you will have little time to do what you really want with it.

* If you want to support all your kids as Bank of Mum and Dad til they in their 30s. then please sign your death warrant here...

RandallFlagg · August 2017

57Deluxe said:

...will be compromises with any decisions you take. But ultimately:

* If you want better health, junk the stress - is a silent killer.

* If you want money then work, but you will have little time to do what you really want with it.

* If you want to support all your kids as Bank of Mum and Dad til they in their 30s. then please sign your death warrant here...

I hear you. My 2 at home at 14 and 16 and are slowly bleeding me dry already

digitalscream · August 2017

RandallFlagg said:

57Deluxe said:

...will be compromises with any decisions you take. But ultimately:

* If you want better health, junk the stress - is a silent killer.

* If you want money then work, but you will have little time to do what you really want with it.

* If you want to support all your kids as Bank of Mum and Dad til they in their 30s. then please sign your death warrant here...

I hear you. My 2 at home at 14 and 16 and are slowly bleeding me dry already

Mine's currently 22, and showing no signs of financial independence any time soon...

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Life choices...

Comments