No, not like that! I mean when you are the only one who really knows how to setup the PA and where the rest of the band see anything more than plugging the leads in and moving the faders a little as unnecessary "fiddling".
I haven't actually had that scenario yet, as we haven't started gigging yet (our first booking is 16th Dec), but I've got a suspicion my idea of setting up the PA is going to be frustrating for them.
How do you get through the sound check without those with little understanding of what's required, getting bored?
Talking of... how long do you spend doing any ringing-out, EQing, level setting etc after you've got all the physical connections sorted?
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If you're going to be gigging reasonably regularly, is there anyone that you can bring in to take on the soundboard duties? Gives you less hassle, and allows them to take a more independent view on levels/balance/etc.
If a band member challenged excess "fiddling" to get the sound as good as it could be, I'd be questioning whether they do take pride in the sound and if they really understand what being in a band is all about..
Er, unless you are planning on spending an hour just adjusting EQ on the vocal mics??
If I knew anyone who knew their stuff, maybe I'd hand it over to them - BUT - it doesn't change the question. The band are still going to get fed up whether it's me doing it or someone else.
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The ones I get frustrated with are the musicians who play along with and noodle during another players check.
A band is supposed to be for fun, yes - but for me, the fun soon goes when you're half way through a set and you can't hear yourself/the singer/the guitarist/anything useful etc..
It's certainly true that if you get a decent enough mix at the soundcheck - which I didn't have the opportunity of in this case, it was a public event which started well before the stage was set up - then you can more or less leave it alone, but it's never quite as good as actively "fiddling" to keep making sure everything is just right.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
The advent of the digital desk has just about rendered sound checking obsolete in the last few years in the bands I play in.... I mean we still line check and bash through half a song just to make sure everyone's happy but the actual EQ, compression and gate settings, as well as the IEM \ wedge routing and mixes are stored with the patch and generally don't need any fiddling .... We store the show file under the venue name so if there is something strange about the venue that requires something specific then that's already done as well. There's 2 engineers we use across 4 different bands using QU mixers, both are Allen & Heath QU guys so even if it's not their desk they can load their patch from their USB pen key if it's not stored locally or been overwritten. With everything in the desk there's no outboard to wire up and if you put the IEM receivers in the same rack as a digital stage box and wireless mics wiring up all the mics and all the IEM transmitters is just one mains cable and one Ethernet cable.
I gotta admit I don't mind a nice long soundcheck if the band are in an empty room before the punters get there but I don't enjoy a long drawn out soundcheck when the place is busy ....... people are trying to talk .... "Kick " ... boom boom boom ... "Snare" ...crack, crack ,crack crack .... "more snare" ... crack crack crack .... people get annoyed. Your average sound man is pretty thick skinned to this ... he's busy looking at a Gate threshold or something and appears not to notice half the pub want to kill him and the poor drummer who's had to bash the same drum for 20 minutes .... it's unnecessary I think
My own method when mixing other bands with no stored show file is to just line check the mics, get basic monitor levels and then I get the band to play a song and it's while they are actually playing a song I will get down to gating any drums if needed, EQ'ing and compressing the vocal, working on the bass, thinning out keyboards and backing vox. If you work on a drum while there's a song playing no one gets annoyed. If you insist on the drummer whacking one drum for 20 minutes it winds people up. When it comes to vocal PFL the singer saying "one two" half heartened into the mic is pointless ... again set it when he \ she is actually singing your get a meaningful level then. People play and sing different in isolation then when they are all playing together
We tend to only use vocal mics in pubs and the backline un-mic'ed but in a few venues recently we had a our big Yamaha PA instead of the Bose L1 and I'd be interested in a topic regarding setting up PA and EQ'ing tips at a gig that maybe others could contribute to.
I went direct with my Helix the other night and Bass was DI too but drums and 2nd guitar were not mic'ed - that really caused a disconnect on stage (we tend not to use monitors as we can all hear in the pubs generally). We are decent at getting a balanced sound in that environment but a louder drummer has led us to potentially require going full PA.
I'm thinking it's time we started mic'ing up all of us but it's a whole new world!
We do use full PAs and monitors in the bigger venues we play that have a soundman but doing it ourself is a new thing.
I am only one with wireless so I tend to go out front and listen then just offer a suggestion as to who needs to go up or down
I agree the members should want the best sound out front and not the perfect mix on stage (both is great but FoH is priority) "Good enough" is not the attitude and may clarify the level of band you have joined? Always a balance!
Offset "(Emp) - a little heavy on the hyperbole."
Definitely this. The singer stands out from and conducts the connection check. We then soundcheck parts of two different songs so that all instruments are covered. EQ and volume adjustments are more to do with equipment changes, for axample our singer has a new guitar amp which we'll adjust for on Saturday. Then we save the venue settings in the desk.
With cardioid and hyper cardioid mics, and IEMs instead of monitors, we don't need to ring out. If any venue has a feed back problem we carry a 31 band graphic EQ, but haven't had to use it so far this year.
Asking the other guys to "sing like you will during the set" then asking them repeatedly to "give it some beans".
And it's just the same when sound checking drums/instruments - it all changes first note/first song as they get into it.
Then it means i'm having to constantly check levels and settings during a set when i should be concentrating on playing guitar and singing...then remembering what to change when it comes to the end of the song or adjusting on the fly...and i don't even majorly delve into EQ's/gating/compression like the pro's do (danny1969) but it still makes it tricky
Do have the opportunity to rehearse with the PA before the gig?
I always find this a useful exercise re getting settings in the right ball park.
Make sure they understand the end goal.
is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?
So say you always get a 5147hz ring from the singers mic, ring it out and set it as a fixed filter 1, next freq to ring may be 7812hz so once it's found it set it a a fixed Filter.
At this point you have likely taken away the systems response spikes to a decent level and in many venues will never have to do that again as long as you have saved those two settings in fixed filters.
Now if you get to a 'difficult' venue where the ceiling is very low or there is a column supporting the ceiling 5 feet in front of the only location available for the PA cab, or one cab has to be behind you to not block the toilets etc. you leave the standard filters and switch one on to auto until it catches the ring. Set it to fixed, turn down a touch and off you go. If it's really really bad turn on one more filter and repeat but you are really asking a lot of the tools at this point. the suggestion in the other thread of setting a fixed minimum 100 or 120Hz to stop stage rumble being amplified is a good one (on the vocal chanels).
Doing this the system set up will typically be fast and reliable as long as you don't use different speakers or microphones!!!.
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Offset "(Emp) - a little heavy on the hyperbole."
I’ve mixed over 100 bands this year and they all react differently to sound checks but the more professional and sober they are the easier it is