Hi all,
I picked up a Marshall Valvestate 8008 power amp and a Mesa Boogie Formula Preamp second hand recently. Really liking the sound of them together. But it's not that loud in mono.
Running the preamp and poweramp in mono through a Zilla 1x12 Fatbaby with one 16ohm Celestion speaker. I'm just using a single output from the Marshall power amp. It's fine for loud home use but maybe not enough headroom for playing with a drummer.
Do you think it's because I'm running it in mono?
@Clarky would love to hear your opinion if poss. Think you've got the same power amp?
Cheers,
Andy
Comments
30W solid-state (bearing in mind you probably won't want it to clip) is really not a lot for playing against a drummer, through a single speaker. You probably need either a 4-ohm cab or a 2x12" to get it loud enough, since unfortunately it doesn't have a 'bridge' mode.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Do you think a single speaker at 4 ohms would be ok? With the 2x12 do I need one with 2 inputs (1 for each speaker)?
thanks!
What speaker does the cab have now? Not all Celestions are the highest efficiency available, and it's possible that a single high-efficiency 8-ohm speaker could make enough difference if the one you have isn't.
With a 2x12" you have two options - either running from one side of the amp, or with two inputs from both sides. If possible I would avoid a 4-ohm cab in mono, since that's slightly more stressful for the amp than 8 or 16 ohms - it's better to get the same (or actually slightly more) power by using both sides at 8 ohms, if you can.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I ran the two outputs as stereo into separate 8 ohm V30 speakers (one per channel). That was easily loud enough in a large 10 piece band with a loud drummer. I'm not sure I would have been able to tolerate much drop in volume for that band. I briefly tried a Marshall 20/20 valve power amp instead, but that didn't stay clean enough at volume for me.
On occasions when I used the 8008 with one cab (e.g. rehearsals), I always put a load resistor on the unused output (and set it to minimum volume) because I wasn't sure whether it was OK to leave one channel unloaded.
I wonder if I could get an EVM-12L in 4 ohms. mmmm. Always fancied one of them.
But... What's a load resistor when it's at home?
Also, for anyone who is interested in a Valvestate power amp, the 8008 is the one to get - they're solid and reliable. Avoid the 8004 - which is sometimes confused with the 80W model because it's 40W per channel, or 80 in total - easily identified by having no volume controls on the front. These are unreliable and a bit weak-sounding.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I used what I believe is called a chassis mount resistor which I screwed to a metal plate, for added heat dissipation. Although, to be honest, I don't recall it getting even warm. It looked like the one in the picture at the link below. But based on what @ICBM said, it sounds like I was being overly cautious.
http://uk.farnell.com/arcol/hs50-8r2-j/resistor-wirewound-8-2ohm-5-axial/dp/2478211
I had one of those for years, which I used as my band's main PA amp. Totally bombproof and much louder than only 200W per channel would lead you to expect.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
toured the shit out of it and it's been rock solid [only needed a single repair in more than 20 years]..
as mentioned above, the impedance of your cab is too high.. sure it'll work fine but you'll lose volume..
you need 8ohm, or better 4ohm speakers..
I used to run a pair of 4x12 cabs with mine both set to 4ohm.. and it was plenty loud..
in some venues I was only provided with a single 4x12 which I set to stereo mode... so it turns into a pair of 2x12 cabs at 8ohms.. still plenty loud...
given that you're playing in mono with a mono preamp I'd suggest this:
connect the preamp to input jack B.. this is linked mono mode..
it'll allow you to run a cab in both A and B.. ok so you only have one cab right now, but it's still a good thing to know should you change your mind later..
get yourself a decent 1x2 [or better 2x12] that can run at 4ohm
you can't really go wrong with Marshall cabs and they're not that costly [compared to much of the competition]..
it space / weight is less of an issue I'd personally I'd go with the 2x12
or better, a nice fat 4x12 1960b cab: I use a pair of these and they are lovely
the 2x12 [and 4x12] has a much fatter bottom end than the 1x12 simply because it's in a bigger box..
and it has more apparent volume because you're moving a larger column of air
used 4x12 cabs [if you are up for using one] in good nick are not that expensive..
also if you're playing a place and that'll provide backline, Marshall 4x12's are pretty ubiquitous and so very easy for a venue to provide [which is 100% the main reason why I chose the 1960b in the first place]
set the 8008 to Valvestate mode.. this is because you are not modelling the power amp..
linear mode is for things like the Axe-FX, Helix etc because in addition to modelling the preamp, they also model the voicing of the power amp..
Valvestate mode will voice the 8008 and give you a tone and feel that's not a million miles from a Marshall EL34 power amp..
you'll notice this effect more at gig volume
Note: the 8008 cannot bridge the channels into a single 160W amp..
that said, when you run it into a pair of 4ohm 4x12 cabs it'll knock walls down..
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That MESA preamp I've bought is stereo. But I'm using it in mono mode at the moment. It sounds bloody great with the 8008. It's a good volume at home for recording.
Think a 1x12 is plenty for me at the mo. My band is early stages in a rehearsal room. It's modern funk stuff. Maybe will look for a 4ohm speaker. My cab is a Zilla Fat Baby, sounds great. It's 20kg tho and could prob find a lightweight 2x12 at a similar weight.
Or if wanted to keep my cab maybe switch to a matrix gt power amp? Would that work ok with my current 1x12 cab? would rather not do this as I like the Marshall 8008 sound.
Lot's of options anyway. cheers all!
a Matrix will work with your 1x12.. but it's still 16ohm so you'll get a level drop
I switched to the Matrix because it's more powerful than the 8008 [not that the 8008 wasn't enough] and mostly because it's about 1 1/2 kg lighter..
which given that I fly to most of my gigs matters..
the Matrix has no 'voice'.. so it's best suited to modellers
stick with the 8008 and get a 4x12 or 2..
and deafen 'em to deff... lol..