Heavy guitars. Plus points.

Richardj · February 2014

Timmysoft said:

I used to love heavy guitars and thought that the extra weight added girth to the tone at volume. I've recently realised that its not really necessary though, with a decent rig you should be able to get all the girth and low end you need from even the lightest of guitars.

So now i'm a big fan of light guitars, not Parker Fly light, but i think Ibanez RG's are acceptable! The Godin i'm currently playing seems to be the perfect weight and incredibly well balanced on a strap, i was standing for 4 hours at rehearsal last week and had no pain at all.

The CMM1 is a monster, it is possibly the heaviest guitar I have played. However it does sound really very good for it. Once you have craned it into place!

Pleased you like the Godin, for some reason completely overlooked but amazing quality for the price.

ThePrettyDamned · February 2014

Obviously, for some, a medical issue can be a reason to go light, but if that's the case, there are alternatives including thinline, chambered (yup, these affect tone but I think much in the same way as just having a lighter guitar does) and other woods. You want mega light? Incredibly lightweight and not horrendously expensive, especially when compared to very light swamp ash and mahogany.

And lets be honest, buying a body like this http://www.guitarfetish.com/Super-Lightweight-Unfinished-Tele-Style-Body-Solid-_p_4483.html then paying a proper luthier to build it up and set it up will get you a great playing, quality instrument. Might not be so great with vibrato equipped guitars as it's supposed to be quite a soft wood relative to pine, but for hardtail set ups it'll be perfect. Loads of folks really rate it.

So, there is something for everyone. I know different woods sound different, but if you demand a super light weight body, there must be a compromise because that wood just doesn't exist - you'll have a hard time finding a 2.3lb Tele body made from solid swamp ash.

edit: no idea what happened with my editing there...

guitarfishbay · February 2014

meltedbuzzbox said:

back to the discussion of weight

The ONS said the average man in England was 5ft 9in (175.3cm) tall and weighed 13.16 stone (83.6kg).

so 83..6kg is 184.3 lbs. 9.5lbs is 5% ish of the average mans weight. If you cant carry 5% of you body weight that is supported on a strap for an hour or two, you need to address your physical condition.

That isn't how it works, unless you stand perfectly still during the whole performance.

As soon as you start doing the whole jumping up and down / running around the stage / headbanging trying to put on a show stuff that weight starts getting thrown around and the force it impacts on your body is greater than the weight on its own.

I'm a big built guy at around 15 stone and fairly strong but I discovered pretty quickly that my boat anchor Les Paul (it is around 12lb IIRC) was just going to knacker me out. Even my PRS SC which is around 9.5lb is a drag at longer rehearsals.

For my own tastes in tone and response I prefer a heavier guitar and I have no problem playing them stood up (I try not to practice sitting down as I find practicing while standing translates better), but for prolonged periods of performing/showmanship I prefer something lighter such as a PRS CU.

ThePrettyDamned · February 2014

Also, there is a lot to be said for the Ibanez S series, which are tone monsters, great looking and playing too.

timmysoft · February 2014

ThePrettyDamned said:

Also, there is a lot to be said for the Ibanez S series, which are tone monsters, great looking and playing too.

I rocked this one round Europe back in 2011, absolute rock of a guitar, i dont think i had to tune it all tour!

it crops up a fair bit in this tour diary too:

GSPBASSES · February 2014

Some 15 years ago I stopped making heavy guitars as more and more customers wanted lighter guitars. Age of the customers was form teens to middle age to OAP’s all wanting L/P’s lighter. On talking to the customers about the build and weight no single reason was given for wanting lighter guitars apart form just wanting a lighter guitar. This was also happening with the custom builders I make necks and bodies for but not just for L/P’s but Strats and Tele’s and thats how it been for 15 years light guitars only and no one asking for any else. I don’t think a heavy guitar adds any thing to any thing apart form weight.

I’m also being ask to make super light Tele’s that are basically a Thin Line with no “F” hole that have to be around 2lb 8oz’s and they sound great just like a Tele should.

If your a guitar builder the link below shows how I go about reducing the weight of a L/P.

http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3555.msg22648#msg22648

Now if any one want a heavy ish T/C body I have some “B” grade Swamp Ash bodies. There “B’” grade because of there weight. I have a max weight of 4lb 8oz’s for a Swamp Ash body these are 5lb and 4lb 13oz’s These are for sale at £60 for a body or £160 with a neck. You can see then at the link below.

http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4644.0

Now if your a Gibson Les Paul man then don’t look at the following videos as the L/P type guitar is not made with Mahogany its chambered it light and its covered in Polyester but still sounds great

http://simnettguitars.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3630.0

Skipped · February 2014

Here is the good news: The Les Paul Recording II has traditional weight relief!
The bad news. It weighs 10 pounds.

http://davesguitar.com/products/gibson-usa/limited-edition-les-paul-recording-ii/

But they have found a consistent source of lightweight mahogany for the Historics. (Fiji?) 8.5 lbs Les Paul is easy to find now. 8.2 lbs is pretty common.
This one is 7.88 lbs. Not Chambered. No weight relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy3AZ0In

grungebob · February 2014

Ive owned monsterously heavy guitars (1979 washburn falcon) and stupidly light guitars and at the end of the day i prefer them to resonate easily all through the body and ive always found that to happen the most on lighter guitars, im no saying their the most toneful or sustain the longest but it helps me connect to the instrument more if i can feel it vibrate and i tend to hold on to those ones the longest

stonevibe · February 2014

grungebob said:

Ive owned monsterously heavy guitars (1979 washburn falcon) and stupidly light guitars and at the end of the day i prefer them to resonate easily all through the body and ive always found that to happen the most on lighter guitars, im no saying their the most toneful or sustain the longest but it helps me connect to the instrument more if i can feel it vibrate and i tend to hold on to those ones the longest

I had a Washburn Falcon.

Absolutely hated it.

Neck through and covered in a thick clear lacquer.

fretfinder · February 2014

meltedbuzzbox said:

I understand with accidents,

Brize said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

The thing that annoys me are people moaning that a 9lb guitar isn't good for their back.
If your back cant take a 9lb weight you need to fix it with some kind of strengthening exercises instead of buying a lighter guitar

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous thing to say. Some people have back and/or shoulder problems and some people just have small frames that can't accommodate a heavy guitar. For me 9lbs is about the limit. I once owned a 9.5lb Les Paul and I was in pain and seriously unhappy after playing it for about 10 minutes.

I thought I might touch a nerve.

Dont give me crap about the size of your frame, go down the gym and see some of the weight those with "little frames" are lifting. I know slender girls squatting 60kg +

I used to play with a lad in his late 30s that played a tele that weighed 11lbs, he was about 5"4 and weighed sod all. He got on fine, most likely because he used to get down the gym on occasion.

Legitimate medical issues I have nothing but sympathy for @Impmann thats real shit what happened to you bud and my hat goes off to you, many would just give up.

back to the discussion of weight

The ONS said the average man in England was 5ft 9in (175.3cm) tall and weighed 13.16 stone (83.6kg).

so 83..6kg is 184.3 lbs. 9.5lbs is 5% ish of the average mans weight. If you cant carry 5% of you body weight that is supported on a strap for an hour or two, you need to address your physical condition.

Excuse me for asking but who are you to be telling people what their attitude should be towards the weight of guitars, and telling them to address their physical condition?! It's not a matter of "can't" carry a heavy guitar in most cases, but don't want to and would prefer to be comfortable. That's up to each of us to decide for ourselves I believe, so don't give me crap either. :-S

meltedbuzzbox · February 2014

fretfinder said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I understand with accidents,

Brize said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

The thing that annoys me are people moaning that a 9lb guitar isn't good for their back.
If your back cant take a 9lb weight you need to fix it with some kind of strengthening exercises instead of buying a lighter guitar

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous thing to say. Some people have back and/or shoulder problems and some people just have small frames that can't accommodate a heavy guitar. For me 9lbs is about the limit. I once owned a 9.5lb Les Paul and I was in pain and seriously unhappy after playing it for about 10 minutes.

I thought I might touch a nerve.

Dont give me crap about the size of your frame, go down the gym and see some of the weight those with "little frames" are lifting. I know slender girls squatting 60kg +

I used to play with a lad in his late 30s that played a tele that weighed 11lbs, he was about 5"4 and weighed sod all. He got on fine, most likely because he used to get down the gym on occasion.

Legitimate medical issues I have nothing but sympathy for @Impmann thats real shit what happened to you bud and my hat goes off to you, many would just give up.

back to the discussion of weight

The ONS said the average man in England was 5ft 9in (175.3cm) tall and weighed 13.16 stone (83.6kg).

so 83..6kg is 184.3 lbs. 9.5lbs is 5% ish of the average mans weight. If you cant carry 5% of you body weight that is supported on a strap for an hour or two, you need to address your physical condition.

Excuse me for asking but who are you to be telling people what their attitude should be towards the weight of guitars, and telling them to address their physical condition?! It's not a matter of "can't" carry a heavy guitar in most cases, but don't want to and would prefer to be comfortable. That's up to each of us to decide for ourselves I believe, so don't give me crap either. :-S

You're excused ;-)

Happy to have a back and fourth on pm fella, I dont think it adds a lot more to this discussion.

However my point about someone with a small frame is very much true.

timmysoft · February 2014

meltedbuzzbox said:

I understand with accidents,

Brize said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

The thing that annoys me are people moaning that a 9lb guitar isn't good for their back.
If your back cant take a 9lb weight you need to fix it with some kind of strengthening exercises instead of buying a lighter guitar

Sorry, but that's a ridiculous thing to say. Some people have back and/or shoulder problems and some people just have small frames that can't accommodate a heavy guitar. For me 9lbs is about the limit. I once owned a 9.5lb Les Paul and I was in pain and seriously unhappy after playing it for about 10 minutes.

I thought I might touch a nerve.

Dont give me crap about the size of your frame, go down the gym and see some of the weight those with "little frames" are lifting. I know slender girls squatting 60kg +

I used to play with a lad in his late 30s that played a tele that weighed 11lbs, he was about 5"4 and weighed sod all. He got on fine, most likely because he used to get down the gym on occasion.

Legitimate medical issues I have nothing but sympathy for @Impmann thats real shit what happened to you bud and my hat goes off to you, many would just give up.

back to the discussion of weight

The ONS said the average man in England was 5ft 9in (175.3cm) tall and weighed 13.16 stone (83.6kg).

so 83..6kg is 184.3 lbs. 9.5lbs is 5% ish of the average mans weight. If you cant carry 5% of you body weight that is supported on a strap for an hour or two, you need to address your physical condition.

Everything about this is total LOL!

I'm 6'1", 14+ stone and i struggle with heavy guitars.

My conditioning, well i've played football for the past 20 years, i've worked on oil rigs and service boats, i also box (although i've had to take a break from that because of my back problems caused by heavy guitars). I dont think you'll find many 33 year old guys who are as fit as me, plus i dont drink and i dont smoke.

So do you want to tell me i'm weak? Do you want to tell me to go to the gym more? I've always been a fit guy, but my back problems are a consequence of heavy guitars.

When you're lifting weights or fitness training, its rare that you'll carry that sort of load around your neck/shoulders, the exception to that is forces training where you'd be trained to carry a lot of weight across your back, i dont see a lot of guys training down the gym doing that though, so they must be weak.

UnclePsychosis · February 2014

As a bass player I find it hilarious when guitarists complain about the weight of their instruments.

Get a good strap, it makes the world of difference. I've got a really wide neoprene strap for my yamaha TRB, it makes it feel pounds lighter.

johnnyurq · February 2014

Skipped said:

Here is the good news: The Les Paul Recording II has traditional weight relief!
The bad news. It weighs 10 pounds.
http://davesguitar.com/products/gibson-usa/limited-edition-les-paul-recording-ii/

Bloody lightweight my 1971/72 LPR is well over 11 Lbs.

Lucky for me I have both a low centre of gravity and broad shoulders.

JAYJO · February 2014

If you have a bad back just leaning forward can be a problem. The weight of your upper body and nugget can be enough to start it off. This is why when i play i bend my knees!. I look like a little twat waddling around down there with my guitar 6 inches from the floor and it takes me a few minutes to straighten up so Im thinking of getting some casters fitted.

meltedbuzzbox · February 2014

timmysoft said:

Everything about this is total LOL!

I'm 6'1", 14+ stone and i struggle with heavy guitars.

My conditioning, well i've played football for the past 20 years, i've worked on oil rigs and service boats, i also box (although i've had to take a break from that because of my back problems caused by heavy guitars). I dont think you'll find many 33 year old guys who are as fit as me, plus i dont drink and i dont smoke.

So do you want to tell me i'm weak? Do you want to tell me to go to the gym more? I've always been a fit guy, but my back problems are a consequence of heavy guitars.

When you're lifting weights or fitness training, its rare that you'll carry that sort of load around your neck/shoulders, the exception to that is forces training where you'd be trained to carry a lot of weight across your back, i dont see a lot of guys training down the gym doing that though, so they must be weak.

I'm not sure what handling cock on oil rigs/boats/down the docks has to do with guitars :-S

I'm not here to judge though buddy, how you earn your money is your business.

So when you do lunges or squats, that big 22kg bar (plus weights) that runs across your neck and shoulders isn't placing a load on your neck or your shoulders or your back? Weighted dorsal raises? Military press? Cross fit as a program? Weighted vests for boxing/kick boxing/running/whatever? Dead lifts? Upright row?

As a consequence of strengthening these areas you wouldn't be stronger and better equipped to handle weight on your body?

I'm with the bass player, man up and get a better strap

imalone · February 2014

meltedbuzzbox said:

So when you do lunges or squats, that big 22kg bar (plus weights) that runs across your neck and shoulders isn't placing a load on your neck or your shoulders or your back? Weighted dorsal raises? Military press? Cross fit as a program? Weighted vests for boxing/kick boxing/running/whatever? Dead lifts? Upright row?

How many of those put a sideways force on your neck and spine above the shoulders? Hadn't heard of upright row, looking it up I see why. Absolutely a good idea to exercise and stay fit, also a very good idea to have a better (in terms of wider, padded) for a heavy guitar. Not a great idea to poo poo everyone who has issues.

guitarfishbay · February 2014

I'm sorry but I think some people in this thread don't understand physics or don't realise that not everyone stands still when performing.

Standing still with a heavy guitar is one thing. Jumping around / headbanging with a heavy guitar puts all sorts of twisting forces on your shoulders, neck and back.

You don't train deadlifts / squats / military press while twisting your spine or neck because it is very poor form and you will very likely injure yourself. But those kind of forces are common in performing 'athletically' with a guitar. Because of this for certain styles of performance it is entirely sensible that even big and strong guys try and keep the weight of their instruments down to avoid injury.

stonevibe · February 2014

Any chance we can back on track with the thread and drop the exercise routines.

I asked plus points of heavy guitars.

fretfinder · February 2014

stonevibe said: Any chance we can get back on track with the thread and drop the exercise routines. I asked for plus points of heavy guitars.

None? (It's not our fault, meltedbuzzbox just won't leave it alone!)

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