For all you fans of vintage guitars I just want to get to know your thoughts on the subject of condition.
I am obsessed with vintage guitars (as many of you know by now). I like the way they feel, I like the history, I like the way they sound. But the ones I’ve bonded with most have been the heavily played ones, the ones with the finish hanging on for dear life and a few minor mods.
I still look for clean original guitars, mainly as they’re less of a risk if I want to sell but I’ve learnt that inevitably they are the ones I move on.
Does anyone here avoid the ‘players’? Where does the appeal lie in a mint condition vintage guitar?
I have played a few mint vintage guitars and they felt very much like their reissue counterparts... to the point where I wonder why more played examples aren’t actually prized more?!
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Sure you might get the odd blinder thats been under a bed for 50 years but generally if its not been played its not that good.
The fact that things which add appeal for me can knock a sizeable chunk off the price is a just a bonus!
I bought a players grade LP special a while back which had seen better days but the forums very own @miserneil is currently restoring it back to life. I've managed to source almost all period correct parts and I plan to gig it and enjoy it. I feel it's even better knowing exactly what has been done to it rather than a minty guitar which may have had some changes along the way or been a complete dog, put back in the case and kept under the bed for years.
The owner bought it new and never took to playing or it was a better ornament than instrument. There are exceptions of course.
Typically the guitars that have changed parts, repairs and knocks/dings have been passed from one good player to another and had the snot played out of them - there is a reason they were in demand, because they were great guitars and setup to play great.
I tried a lot. Eventually the Precision I ended up with wasn’t chosen on looks. It was chosen on sound, playability and sort of on authenticity. I love it - it has it’s quirks but all in all it’s brilliant at doing what I wanted it to do - recreate that 60’s Precision tone.
I have tried a lot of precisions since, and none really achieve that authentic tone. There’s always something not quite right.
almost all the vintage guitars I see are players grade. Often with a few issues, or they wouldn't come to me in the first place.
I quite like trying to piece together the history of the guitar from the numerous changed parts and scars. Much more interesting than one that has not changed since it left the factory
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This is such a cliché.
I'd suggest simply the majority of the heavily played guitars were just owned by people who played guitar lots - because they liked playing the guitar!
Agreed. I think there are an equal number of mint and well played 'turkeys'. Plenty of people years ago, as now, bought guitars and just took them out the case to play without ever gigging. Doesn't mean they weren't fine instruments. And some people bought them, never got round to learning, and they sat under the bed. I've played a couple of those, 50's Gibsons, and they were excellent. But very weird holding them, looking like they've just come out the shop, when they are actually around 60 years old.
Maybe they liked playing guitar more because they had a good one, maybe it became a good one because it was well played.
What we do know is a well played one will usually have had more tweaks and maintenance work done along the way.
you could say the neck will feel better as long as the frets are well maintained, or even replaced. We can debate whether the resonance will have altered it, but I certainly believe the parts will have bedded together better as a minimum. But its important to remember that can go too far, parts can start to wear out, things can get damage which causes a permanent issue.
Some now try and sell complete wrecks as "players grade". There is a big difference between a players grade guitar that has been played and maintained a lot, and a "players grade" guitar that had irreversible hack jobs done to it.
judge the guitar you have in front of you
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I think that the truly mint vintage guitars are naturally far rarer than the ones with damage/changes. Hence they will always be worth more.I think that tip top condition is the hold grail of collectors of most things.
The downside to something that is truly mint, at least for me, is that I would drive myself nuts that I might damage it. I had a 63 sg junior in white that was like new. Very shortly after I bought it, I put a tiny ding in it (or just as likely the shop which sold it to me had done a terrible cover up job possibly involving thr original chip and it fell off on the journey home) and hated the fact that it had survived 50 years as new and yet I'd had it a day and had damaged it. Hence, one problem is that a truly mint guitar wouldnt be played in my house (and certainly not outside it).
Another drawback to the mint suff is whether its legit or a fake. I tend to accept the premise that someone would more likely go to the trouble of faking something of a higher value. Again, I would drive myself nuts if I had spent 50k on a custom colour strat as, in the absence of impecable provenance, I could never be sure.
I also tend to think that something that actually looks its 40, 50 or 60 years old with its changes,etc is more likely to be legit, more likely to be used by me and will be cheaper. Plus, as its old it should look old.
To be honest, I would always always take a relic strat over a lovely new one as I couldnt bare the thought of the first ding.
Just my thoughts.
Best
Will
they were going to be something. invested by their makers with infinite potential to inspire and bring pleasure to future players and their listeners (even comfort in stressful times), but because hoarder collectors and investors, who fixate on and fetishise commodity values above a guitar's value as an instrument to be played (intended purpose), they never attained life.
i know there are lots of (feeble & unconvincing) counter-arguments;
well it's their money to do with as they please...
that my view discriminates against people who can't play but want to engage with the scene...
well maybe someone will buy them to use eventually...
but basically once a guitar has become locked into long-term use (non-use) as an investment commodity (rather than use as an instrument), it is dead. to play it would reduce its value as a commodity, and the whole purpose of owning a commodity investment is to create wealth from it, not destroy it. it's nothing to do with music and everything to do with capitalism.
so anyway, the guitar effectively dies (stops being a guitar, in any meaningful sense) and takes on a perverse 'dumb' reincarnation as a commodity plank token in the market place.
that's why they annoy me. as beautiful as they can be, they were supposed to be played.
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Two of my best vintage guitars (recent 64 SG and 68 Tele) are near mint, three others (refinished and fretted 72 custom, played to death 60 junior with lots of dings and dents and a refinned, repaired 66 strat) are not - all are just wonderful to play.
I like having the mix, its all to do with the price - I paid more and would expect more for the nicer condition ones - yes I do regret the odd scratches I add but that’s part of the story and I like Joes Bonamassa saying in reply to the guy telling him every scratch on a les Paul was worth $1000, does that mean 250 scratches and it’s free?
some people care too much