Jazz Hands to the rescue.

Iamnobody · October 2018

TimmyO said:

Iamnobody said:

In what context is it being proposed? At gigs? Lectures? Presentations?

I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?

I’m happy to be shot down as I’ve only done a basic awareness course through work.

But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids. I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms.

Don't fancy your chances of a decent care home

Don’t understand your comment?

PolarityMan · October 2018

Wtf is wrong with you people?

Clarky · October 2018

Nitefly said:

What if you want to boo?

jazz boo??

ourmaninthenorth · October 2018

So you can't get the clap in Manchester..?

I must have missed that memo in me younger days..

joeyowen · October 2018

All I'll say is thousands of kids are starting their uni applications about now. It's a very convenient time to be in the news. Free advertising...

I know it sounds cynical

merlin · October 2018

I seem to remember my parents telling me about a fashion in the 60s where young people clicked their fingers instead of clapping. Pretty fucked if you don't have opposable thumbs...

And I remember and episode of Star Trek where the Enterprise crew landed in a funky world where they flicked the lamp on their table on and off in appreciation of the act.....

Fretwired · October 2018

merlin said:

I seem to remember my parents telling me about a fashion in the 60s where young people clicked their fingers instead of clapping. Pretty fucked if you don't have opposable thumbs...

And I remember and episode of Star Trek where the Enterprise crew landed in a funky world where they flicked the lamp on their table on and off in appreciation of the act.....

I worked in Copenhagen for a while - there was an excellent restaurant in the town centre that had an industrial light above each table - looked cool. On top of the light was a large blue light - when you wanted service you simply switched the blue light on by pulling a chord. No finger clicking, arm waving or shouting ... worked a treat.

Grangousier · October 2018

Apropos of nothing, really...

On a residential course I was attending, there would regularly be impromptu performances during mealtimes, with enthusiastic applause. However, there was a toddler in attendance who was very upset by the noise, so we got into the habit of applauding with two fingers on each hand, which made an appreciative (toddler-approved) rustling noise.

There was also Ivor Cutler, member of the Noise Abatement Society, who disapproved of loud clapping, as he told the audience at a sold-out Royal Festival Hall (he was supporting Elvis Costello). Cue several thousand people trying to clap very quietly.

It's quite fun to have your expectations overturned like that. And to try to combine enthusiasm with being quiet, too.

octatonic · October 2018

merlin said:

I seem to remember my parents telling me about a fashion in the 60s where young people clicked their fingers instead of clapping. Pretty fucked if you don't have opposable thumbs...

Ironically I heard about this story from Alex Brooker's twitter feed.

thecolourbox · October 2018

I hated the student Union so much that people clapping in it was fairly low on the list. The very sound of people's voices in there was enough for me, so I suppose in that way I kind of understand their point.

I still wouldn't have gone though, wretched places

axisus · October 2018

Well I for one applaud them ....... er, I mean ......

axisus · October 2018

Actually I think it's all just more PC bollocks. The rubbish that we have been putting up with for years. In 100 years time no one will ever leave their house for fear of offending someone. What next, all gigs have to be really quiet because some people don't like loud noise?

Moe_Zambeek · October 2018

axisus said:

....What next, all gigs have to be really quiet because some people don't like loud noise?

Not far from the truth these days, to be honest.

quarky · October 2018

How do you judge audience reaction if you are visually impaired? Or do blind people not matter?

jellyroll · October 2018

People should be allowed to clap if they want, in a freedom of speech sense. But I support the idea of moving the norm so that sensitivity is shown to those who get stressed by clapping.

proggy · October 2018

So that's why Old Trafford's so quiet now. I thought it was because of Jose Mourinho!

GSPBASSES · October 2018

More PC bullocks from students, . I suggest the students who come up with a stupid idea come down to Chicken Shed. It's not just the theatre is a school of performing arts for all abilities.. This means children and adults with all forms of disability and learning problems. I can assure you they shout and scream and applaud, clapping and whooping as much as anybody, if not more so. When they put on their Christmas show, there could be up to 30+ of these youngsters and adults onstage just doing what they do, may not be anything to do with what the show is all about, but that having great fun. I would like to see one of these PC correct students trying to stop these youngsters and adults from clapping, whooping and generally making loads of noise after somebody has finished performing, and quite often they do it before you finish performing.

I know I'm a bit of an old fart, but at least when I was the age of these students, did not go on about the PC rubbish that seems to be going on with student unions now. More interested in smoking a joint listening to music, and generally having a good time, or trying to ban the bomb protest against the Vietnam War, Greenham common and other good causes. Maybe because my generation were in fear of a nuclear holocaust at any moment. would we wake up in the morning, or would Khrushchev and Kennedy have pressed the button. I can remember the last few words what would have been broadcast if the four-minute warning come, sit down, , put your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye, or words to that effect.

https://www.chickenshed.org.uk/

https://www.chickenshed.org.uk/Event/planet-play-autumn18

Heartfeltdawn · October 2018

Iamnobody said:

I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?

I’m happy to be shot down as I’ve only done a basic awareness course through work.

But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids. I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms.

Then I'll speak as a parent to an autistic 9 year old child called Adam.

"I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?"

Yes it is progress. The quote in bold gets me because it's presenting this idea that autism is something a child can just overcome. This is palpably untrue in many cases. You find other ways of getting to the solution/end product but you don't overcome the problem.

When I have to grab Adam because he follows those people ducking across the road when the red man is up, it is making allowances. It isn't measurable progress. He can cross the road safely but he can sometimes forget when he's in a big crowd because he's overloaded in the sensory department (which is one reason why jazz hands works for autistic people. I've seen Adam react to an ambulance go past as if he's been tortured).

There is no way to totally overcome these barriers. You work around them.

Which feeds into the next section...

"I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms." - this is one of the hardest elements of autism. The way Adam sees things, he sees the start of the journey and the end of the journey. Figuring out the bits in the middle is the bit he finds so damn difficult. You may want them to find coping mechanisms but there could be a chance that they simply do not have the ability to develop the mechanisms you can and think they should.

"But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids."

So if you had a kid in a wheelchair and the school didn't have wheelchair ramps, you'd be unhappy if that world then changed to include ramps? Putting Braille on signs for visually impaired kids is changing the world for them. Greater awareness for people with needs is changing the world for them, and that is as it should be.

I'm not trying to shoot you down and I hope this doesn't come over as being a shooting gallery. Autism is a fucking hard condition to understand, let alone parent. I'm sure @Chalky and others on this forum who are in a similar position to me would emphasise this point. What can come over as 'making allowances' is actually 'best practice' when looking after an autistic child.

Chalky · October 2018

Heartfeltdawn said:

Iamnobody said:

I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?

I’m happy to be shot down as I’ve only done a basic awareness course through work.

But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids. I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms.

Then I'll speak as a parent to an autistic 9 year old child called Adam.

"I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?"

Yes it is progress. The quote in bold gets me because it's presenting this idea that autism is something a child can just overcome. This is palpably untrue in many cases. You find other ways of getting to the solution/end product but you don't overcome the problem.

When I have to grab Adam because he follows those people ducking across the road when the red man is up, it is making allowances. It isn't measurable progress. He can cross the road safely but he can sometimes forget when he's in a big crowd because he's overloaded in the sensory department (which is one reason why jazz hands works for autistic people. I've seen Adam react to an ambulance go past as if he's been tortured).

There is no way to totally overcome these barriers. You work around them.

Which feeds into the next section...

"I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms." - this is one of the hardest elements of autism. The way Adam sees things, he sees the start of the journey and the end of the journey. Figuring out the bits in the middle is the bit he finds so damn difficult. You may want them to find coping mechanisms but there could be a chance that they simply do not have the ability to develop the mechanisms you can and think they should.

"But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids."

So if you had a kid in a wheelchair and the school didn't have wheelchair ramps, you'd be unhappy if that world then changed to include ramps? Putting Braille on signs for visually impaired kids is changing the world for them. Greater awareness for people with needs is changing the world for them, and that is as it should be.

I'm not trying to shoot you down and I hope this doesn't come over as being a shooting gallery. Autism is a fucking hard condition to understand, let alone parent. I'm sure @Chalky and others on this forum who are in a similar position to me would emphasise this point. What can come over as 'making allowances' is actually 'best practice' when looking after an autistic child.

@Iamnobody - I got my two diagnosed privately at 2 years old. It cost thousands but it was worth it, if only for these words of the consultant who listened to us patiently then stood close to me, looked me straight in the eye and said slowly "You cannot fix this".

Her words have stayed with me. You cannot fix autism. The kids cannot develop out of it. You certainly cannot overcome it. Back then someone told me its like a squeezed balloon - suppress it in one place and it pops up elsewhere. That's true. Coping strategies and mechanisms are good, but they are like crutches - they assist but do not cure, they do nothing to heal, and when they break, which they do at some point, you are back on your arse at square one.

Autism documentaries are really annoying. They typically show autistic folks at the lighter end of the spectrum or those who with high-functioning Aspergers. Rather like pointing @Heartfeltdawn's example kid in a wheelchair at the Paralympics and saying "Hey you could win a gold medal!", this puts a glossy sheen of TV optimism on a situation that is unrepresentative of the vast majority of sufferers.

The TV documentaries don't visit the homes of those young adults who have been through all the therapies, coping mechanisms, teaching, nurturing, loving care and support and are still never going to be functioning adults. Like those cancer victims who are diagnosed early and still die within the year, the media doesn't want to show them because ordinary people don't want to think about them. Why? Because its its too hard. If you get beyond that, they then try to blame someone - surely its the fault of the teachers, carers, therapists, parents, Government, someone!!

No - its the fault of Autism.

Now, I bet some reading this will think "he's being very negative". That is the last refuge of people. "If you are positive, it will all work out in the end". And with that those people leave reality behind and move into a world of superstition, where a positive mental attitude beats everything. Cancer? Just be positive! MND? Just be positive! Autism? Just be positive and it will be alright in the end. No it won't.

I actually disagree with the jazz hands because I don't want to stop other kids making noise - its one of those things that kids do to express emotions. Its a good thing. Sure it affects my kids. A ramp for a wheelchair user, braille on signs, the provision of a quieter and darker sideroom for kids who suffer sensory overload, none of these prevent the enjoyment of mainstream kids moving around them. But its wrong to stop kids doing something as natural as expressing emotion through loud sounds. Electric guitar anyone?

ourmaninthenorth · October 2018

Chalky said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Iamnobody said:

I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?

I’m happy to be shot down as I’ve only done a basic awareness course through work.

But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids. I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms.

Then I'll speak as a parent to an autistic 9 year old child called Adam.

"I don’t know much about autism but surely if you keep on accommodating and making allowances it’s not progress? It doesn’t help people overcome their problems and live a ‘normal’ functioning life?"

Yes it is progress. The quote in bold gets me because it's presenting this idea that autism is something a child can just overcome. This is palpably untrue in many cases. You find other ways of getting to the solution/end product but you don't overcome the problem.

When I have to grab Adam because he follows those people ducking across the road when the red man is up, it is making allowances. It isn't measurable progress. He can cross the road safely but he can sometimes forget when he's in a big crowd because he's overloaded in the sensory department (which is one reason why jazz hands works for autistic people. I've seen Adam react to an ambulance go past as if he's been tortured).

There is no way to totally overcome these barriers. You work around them.

Which feeds into the next section...

"I’d want them to learn and adopt coping mechanisms." - this is one of the hardest elements of autism. The way Adam sees things, he sees the start of the journey and the end of the journey. Figuring out the bits in the middle is the bit he finds so damn difficult. You may want them to find coping mechanisms but there could be a chance that they simply do not have the ability to develop the mechanisms you can and think they should.

"But I can speak as a parent and I wouldn’t want the world to change for my kids."

So if you had a kid in a wheelchair and the school didn't have wheelchair ramps, you'd be unhappy if that world then changed to include ramps? Putting Braille on signs for visually impaired kids is changing the world for them. Greater awareness for people with needs is changing the world for them, and that is as it should be.

I'm not trying to shoot you down and I hope this doesn't come over as being a shooting gallery. Autism is a fucking hard condition to understand, let alone parent. I'm sure @Chalky and others on this forum who are in a similar position to me would emphasise this point. What can come over as 'making allowances' is actually 'best practice' when looking after an autistic child.

@Iamnobody - I got my two diagnosed privately at 2 years old. It cost thousands but it was worth it, if only for these words of the consultant who listened to us patiently then stood close to me, looked me straight in the eye and said slowly "You cannot fix this".

Her words have stayed with me. You cannot fix autism. The kids cannot develop out of it. You certainly cannot overcome it. Back then someone told me its like a squeezed balloon - suppress it in one place and it pops up elsewhere. That's true. Coping strategies and mechanisms are good, but they are like crutches - they assist but do not cure, they do nothing to heal, and when they break, which they do at some point, you are back on your arse at square one.

Autism documentaries are really annoying. They typically show autistic folks at the lighter end of the spectrum or those who with high-functioning Aspergers. Rather like pointing @Heartfeltdawn's example kid in a wheelchair at the Paralympics and saying "Hey you could win a gold medal!", this puts a glossy sheen of TV optimism on a situation that is unrepresentative of the vast majority of sufferers.

The TV documentaries don't visit the homes of those young adults who have been through all the therapies, coping mechanisms, teaching, nurturing, loving care and support and are still never going to be functioning adults. Like those cancer victims who are diagnosed early and still die within the year, the media doesn't want to show them because ordinary people don't want to think about them. Why? Because its its too hard. If you get beyond that, they then try to blame someone - surely its the fault of the teachers, carers, therapists, parents, Government, someone!!

No - its the fault of Autism.

Now, I bet some reading this will think "he's being very negative". That is the last refuge of people. "If you are positive, it will all work out in the end". And with that those people leave reality behind and move into a world of superstition, where a positive mental attitude beats everything. Cancer? Just be positive! MND? Just be positive! Autism? Just be positive and it will be alright in the end. No it won't.

I actually disagree with the jazz hands because I don't want to stop other kids making noise - its one of those things that kids do to express emotions. Its a good thing. Sure it affects my kids. A ramp for a wheelchair user, braille on signs, the provision of a quieter and darker sideroom for kids who suffer sensory overload, none of these prevent the enjoyment of mainstream kids moving around them. But its wrong to stop kids doing something as natural as expressing emotion through loud sounds. Electric guitar anyone?

Superb bit of writing @Chalky

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