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In answer to the other point above, setting up a Floyd is easy (i.e. no more difficult than any other two point trem) except for setting intonation which is a bit of a pig!
wrong.
;-)
The *static* tension of the string is exactly the same for any given gauge, scale length and tuning, but it's the stiffness when bending - and to a smaller extent when fretting, which also bends the string - which alters the perception of tension. A trem does move forward when you bend so will feel looser than a hardtail, but a guitar with a Floyd feels stiffer than a non-locking trem because of the nut clamp.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Seems it it may be you who is wrong @professorben?
I’m a Novice, but have found I much prefer 10-46 on my FR San Dimas to the 9-42 it came with and that I stuck with for a year. It feels much better to me and I was expecting to hate the heavier strings as I am used to my SG with 10s and thought I’d find them too stiff on longer scale length.
I adjusted the claw and found a wee tweak to the truss rod was needed as it was buzzing a bit too much.
But the strings *are* stiffer on a Floyd-type double-locking system, in that the tension rises faster as you bend. It's simple physics.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
As things stand, the three guitars I have are all the same in this respect, one (somewhat unusually) with a tune-o-matic and the other a decked two point fender. In my experience, any variance in tension from the locking nut is barely discernible, much like tailpiece height, string through, top loader bridges with the same scale length.
Ive always experienced shorter scale length guitars, les Paul’s, SG, Mustang etc as being softer or looser re string tension, the classic example being 9’s on a fender 10’s on an LP being a similar feel, yet you are saying that the shorter string length means that the tension is higher?
Maybe im getting totally the wrong end of the stick here but if I, for example played the open top string on my guitar ( E)
at concert 440, then capo the string at the 5th fret and retuned it to E again, the tension is a lot lower.
But you you seem to be saying that the double locking nature of a floyd style system reduces the active length of the string and therefore increases the tension.
I still think it's mainly the fact that you have to bend further due to the give of the bridge, and a Floyd seems to "give" more than lets say a Fender style trem, which is why it feels slightly easier on a Fender trem.
If the string is locked thats the length of the string ie shorter.
I cant see how’s its any different locking in a clamp to going in a locking machine head for example.
But like I say, the fact that the bridge end has some give puts a spanner in this theory.
*For a given scale length, string gauge and tuning, the static tension is always exactly the same*. (Ignoring possible differences in wound strings due to the core/wrap ratio.) So a shorter-scale guitar has lower string tension than a longer-scale one.
So the *static* tension on for example an Ibanez RG, a Telecaster and a Jazzmaster - all 25.5" scale - with the same gauge of strings and tuned the same is identical.
But when you bend a string on the Jazzmaster, you're not just stretching the string in the scale length - the string moves over the nut and bridge saddle so you have to stretch the additional length at each end too, and so you have to push the string much further across the neck to get the same pitch rise, and because the extra force for each amount of sideways movement is therefore less, it feels easier to do so - ie the string is less *stiff*.
Now take the Telecaster - the string can still move at the nut, but doesn't really at the bridge due to the sharp break angle over the saddles - so the Tele feels stiffer, and you don't have to move the string anywhere near as far to get the same pitch rise. So a Tele with the same gauge of strings as a Jazzmaster feels 'tighter', as if it has heavier strings, even though the static tension is identical.
Finally the RG - the string is locked at both ends so you only need to stretch the scale length itself, and the tension rise and hence pitch rise is very fast, so the guitar feels even stiffer than the Tele. If the trem is blocked so it can't move forward and take up some of the extra force, even more so.
Does that make sense?
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I think I’m just coming at this from the wrong angle.
The first thing i thought reading reading your post was “so he’s saying the higher amount of steel in a longer string requires less effort to bend up to pitch?!”
which feels counter intuitive.
I mean i an I can totally understand what you are saying, shorter string, less ‘give’ but every trem guitar I’ve ever played has felt so much looser than the same scale length fixed version.
So yeah.
Dunno.
This is not the only example of where human senses can lead you to the wrong conclusions .
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein