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Evening all.
I am about to reconfigure my pedal board to a wet dry set up. Before I do, I figured I might run it past you folks to see if there are any suggestions for improvement or gremlins to avoid.
Current set up
Guitar in > Envelope Filter > Wah > Tuner > MXR EVH Phase90 > Keeley Compressor > Pog > Soul Food > King of Tone > TC Electronic spark boost > Boss Noise gate > Into Marshall Amp
Amp FX Send > Voodoo Lab Micro Vibe > H9 > Ditto looper > Amp FX Return
As you might notice, its all a bit conventional in that most fx are in the front while modulation is on the loop. The H9 is used for a variety of delays, reverbs and chorus type sounds depending on song.
Proposed set up
All the front end as above i.e. all into the Marshall pre amp
Amp FX Send > Lehle P Split
From the Lehle the Original signal will go to Voodoo Lab Micro Vibe > H9 > Ditto looper > Amp FX Return (i.e. is now the Wet signal ) while the isolated signal (i.e. dry) will go to the FX return of AMP #2 (Currently a Sessionette 75)
My thinking for this is:
I need to get a load of new patch leads made up so I can't experiment quite yet - hence the thinking out loud
Final question - where might a nice new Tremolo best sit in that signal path? I am guessing as part of the front end...
Thanks
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Comments
Couple of things;
1. Part of the beauty of wet/dry is the use of different amps and the mix this allows - I'd defo be tempted to have a go using this conventionally to save all the faffing with the amp loop etc. Not saying it won't work but you may be surprised at how well a standard setup works even with your Sessionette
2. Beware that some pedals flip the signal phase - only need to worry about anything after your Lehle. See the following https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/list-the-pedals-that-invert-phase.796444/
3. I've found trem works best just into the wet amp tbh..
Hope that helps,
Si
Thanks. So the 'conventional' set up Is fx into the front end of both amps? And you are suggesting this might be ok? (My original thinking was to use the Marshall preamp tone) But am guessing it might be better to deliberately mix slightly different map tones?
Guitar in > Envelope Filter > Wah > Tuner > Keeley Compressor > Pog > Soul Food > King of Tone > TC Electronic spark boost > Boss Noise gate > Lehle iso out to dry amp - (this is the split point; all stuff after this goes to wet amp only)>MXR EVH Phase 90>Voodoo Lab Micro Vibe > H9>wet amp. I've moved the MXR but you don't need to if you like the sound of it into drives..
If you're using a looper then patch in as above order (with Lehle in it's own loop) and you can then switch the Lehle in/out to add/remove dry amp. If you're not using a looper with that lot I'd be getting one!
I suggest you then leave all fx out and with both speaker cabs next to each other flip the phase switch on the Lehle - select the setting with most bass. Then play to your heart out! You may want to select each of the wet effects on an individual basis and hit the phase switch on the Lehle to check nothing is flipping signal polarity - use your ears. If nothing is strange you're good to go and you can pop the Lehle phase back to the setting you had when you initially tested with no wet FX.
With the trem into wet amp only I tend to have a trem set permanently on but at a very subtle setting. This is hardly noticeable (until you turn it off) but sounds ace imho
Hope this helps,
Si
SI
@tekbow ;
I used to use a single Bogner head with a Suhr iso line out into stereo FX, Velocity stereo power amp and then into two separate 1 x 12 cabs for w/d/w (with 2x12 for Boggy dry)
You could do the same for w/d as you suggest but the real beauty of two amps is getting two that work well together and blending to taste.
Wet/dry with two amps is more practical and sounds brill.
Si
thanks mate- most helpful. I will try that out over the coming evenings. Just waiting for a new set of patch leads to arrive
No problem.
Last piece of advice would be that before you start with the board build etc. just start with two amps and the Lehle. Plumb this in i.e. iso output to Marshall (dry), other output to Sessionette (wet) and get it up and running. Do the phase check at this point and set an amp balance. I would then actually plug everything on the wet side in (adding each pedal individually) until you're happy that it all works; then build your board proper. This may save you some head scratching and frustration..
Let us know how it goes..
Si
It's also worth remembering that if you're playing mic'd gigs then you're also entering a potential world of pain with the sound engineer. You'll probably only end up with the wet amp going through FOH and a sad feeling in your heart..
Si
Not too bad if you are using mostly analogue pedals but when you get into having a loop switcher with the big Strymons or other preset ready pedals going back to one amp requires a whole new set of presets all round, otherwise everything turns into a big wall of mush.
I think micing 2 amps on the fly on stage is also quite problematic as you may run into phase issues, not very up on the ins and outs of that though so maybe someone else could help clarify...
My band was watching some videos back of our live performances and when I was using just my AC30, a year before in the same venue, it sounded great, nice full tone etc. My last gig which was with 2 amps, I sounded much thinner and brighter. I remember it sounding ok on stage but through front of house I sounded markedly worse.
The issue with micing up two amps is again phase related - the sound guy needs to mic up both cabs and then check the phase by flipping one channel on the desk. Getting two mic's up is tough enough most of the time..
Si
I had thought of that so here is my plan-
the wet (main) amp will be set at sorta 60% master volume while the dry will be say 40%. The plan is that the wet fx (delays, verbs, chorus, vibe and tremolo) will still be the majority of the sound while the dry 'supplements' the wet. Having tried an amp only set up to test the phases, the session is much brighter than the Marshall. If the session dominates the sound, it's lacking in bottom end, while if it's Marshall only, it's lacking 'bite'. So far so good.
I have a variety of delays and verbs I use, pre programmed in the H9. My plan is to modify each patch so that the expression pedal controls the mix. Heel down will be the 'base' setting , ie what I have now, and then toe down will become wetter and wetter to taste. If this doesn't work out I will set up a duplicate set of patches, one for wet only and one for wet/dry.
Does that kind of make sense?
Thanks for the offer but I have the lehle p split, which is really good. It is passive so requires no power, and has ground and phase switches. It is very low profile and is supplied with screws and spacers to fix direct to your pedal board. Recommended product.