So a friend of mine who is not on this awesome forum has an ES 345 he bought about 20 years ago while he still lived in the US.
He was asking me yesterday if I knew a way of getting some more info on the guitar, actual year it was made, what pups where in it when it left the factory (he suspects the bridge pick up has been swapped) etc.
So I of course ran the serial number on a couple of the online decoders. However, all they can tell us is that it was either made in 66, 67 or 69 at the Kalamazoo plant.
Does anyone know of a way of finding out for sure which of the 3 years it was made? Also any thoughts on the stock pups that should be in it?
Of course if anyone can put a rough value on it, that would be cool too. I know he'd never part with it but it's always nice to know.
If it helps, serial number is 700043.
Be really grateful for any better info you guys may have.
@FelineGuitars, I suspect you'll be seeing this for an MOT in the next few weeks.
Thanks all.
All the right notes, not always in the right order!
Comments
Edit: More pics now added below!!
The dates on the pots might help further - assuming you can read them - Dust, muck or solder blobs make this hard
Otherwise pics of the headstock, label in the f-hole, underneath the pick-ups plus any other close ups will help at this stage
Also check fingerboard width - around 1965/66 period Gibson changed from 1 11/16" to 1 9/16"
Won't comment on value now, as condition, originality has such an impact on the price
Any comments about any refin or neck repairs welcome
Unless it is a case of a date of birth guitar, then I don't see any benefit of a 66 over a 67 or the other way around - Essentially the same guitar a few months apart
As regards value, one thing I can say from experience is that blonde models are considered more desirable in the States than they are here.
Gibson's serial numbers are pretty hopeless, that number could also be early 70s.
(Serial number dater project is the best I find).
Check GuitarHQ, they have detailed specs which you can compare.
Pot codes won't help a lot, firstly there will only be one not in a case on a 345, but also that just means the guitar wasn't made before that date.
Measure the nut, it should be the narrower one but start with that.
What's the bridge? I'm assume trapeze? That came in in 1965.
Are the tuners original? If so, and they're not Gibson Deluxe - then you're pre-69.
So if we're looking at a narrow nut and a trapeze bridge then it's likely 65-68 (or early 69), then looking at pot codes (if original, many aren't) can narrow things down.
If you don't have Klusons, but have the original tuners and it's narrow nut/trapeze it's likely a 69.
Remember these are only clues, features were carried over year to year and parts were used when needed.
In terms of the pickups, this era they should be PAT pickups (meaning when you lift them out you see a sticker with the Patent Number on them), throughout the 60s these changed considerably - early PATs are basically PAFs with a different sticker, through the 60's they moved more and more away from that spec.
Late 60's are still great pickups in my opinion, they tend (in my experience) to be a bit more mid-range, bit higher output. Later 60s become known as 'T-tops' because of a moulding mark in the bobbin and that's really effectively the end of the PAT era as far as I'm concerned.
Value is hard, I find the 345 market pretty soft to be honest. I recently bought a really nice player grade (some wear, overspray on the back of the neck but no breaks and all original including case) 64 (so wider neck, 'better' pickups) for £6500 from a dealer.
Vintage and Rare have a very nice 335 (which go for more) 67 with Selmer case for about £4k.
That's a lot of guitar for the money, I've played it and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it - plays great.
I would say in a private sale, anything close to £4k (given the above) would be a win.
345s are cheaper than 335s because of star association and also the stereo wiring
Hope this helps
Thanks for all the help so far guys.
Changed tuners as well - Not sure at this stage if factory fitted Bigsby or fitted at a later date
funnily enough, despite the fact that a new 345 was more expensive than a new 335 back in the day, a used 335 is more desirable and worth more than a corresponding used 345
My buddy is pretty sure the tuners are not original as apparently there are screw holes showing on the back of the headstock. I'll get some more pics from him tonight. I didn't notice this when I played it but I wasn't really looking to be fair.
Carl is pretty keen to swap them back to what they should be anyway.
The rest of the hardware we're pretty sure is original. The bridge pick up looks considerably newer than the neck and just sounds a bit off if you know what I mean, so he suspects that's been changed at some point.
Overall condition is pretty good, just has a few years worth of stank on it but nothing out of the ordinary. Could probably use a new nut.
As I said above, I suggested he takes it to Feline and let them give it the once over and he's pretty keen on that idea. Hopefully that should answer some of the questions.
Thanks again all.
If it helps, the serial number on the sticker does match the one on the headstock!
Certainly a sixties ES-335 would sell for more than the equivalent 345 as @guitars4you said.
guitars4you said: If the Bigsby was fitted later, would there not be holes in the body where the stop tail would have been?
Having just spoken with Carl, he says he picked it up at 30th street guitars in New York in 1998. Paid $1000 for it. He's going to send over some better pics tonight.
It won't have been Carl I can promise that much. He's not into his guitars enough to start messing around like that, in the nicest possible way, he'd have no clue where to start.
He's normally a Strat guy but has just found a renewed affection for this dusty old thing - hence the sudden interest in it's history.
Just to echo all of the above (my long post was pre-pics).
Clearly a late 60's 335, everything screams that.
Looks like Schallers on there, but could also be Grovers (I think?) - so again, classic of the era.
Looks to me like the bridge pickup cover is shinier than the other, could be a replacement?
Based on it being a 335, that puts the value up - but the narrow nut is still an issue, just keeps the price down far more than it should I think, and Bigsby takes of 15-25% depending on who you ask.
Let me know if your mate is interested in selling