Hello,
I have the occasional debate with a friend about front of house sound quality at gigs back in the days before the done thing became to play quietly on stage and have everything through the PA.
I don't want to get into what is better or worse (well not too much) but...
I started going to gigs in the 80s, when PAs were pretty well developed but it was still acceptable to play loud on stage- so if you were in the front few rows (or most of the venue if it was Motorhead) you'd get mostly backline.
But- does anyone remember going to shows where it was vocals only through PA and whacking great guitar amps?
I've heard it argued that 'the sound was crap and no one could hear a thing'- but this seems at odds with some of the blistering live recordings from these times. In contrast with the sterile but 'nice' sounding stuff I hear today (OK not going to go there, must not go there)
My question then - anyone here go to see bands back in (say) late 60s into 70s and what did it sound like out front?
Particularly interested in venues larger than your pub/small club type thing.
How loud were things and was it crap, amazing (or as I suspect,some place in between depending on where you were standing)?
Any thoughts and memories appreciated!
Cheers
Edit- And this should not be limited to heavy RAWK gigs.
Comments
We are still using same design amps and guitars, same old drums, yet its only the PA systems that have gotten truly better …………...thank god!
When mixing desks came in PAs got louder. Backline got mic’d up, but the PA was often quite distorted because everything was pushed to the limits.
In places like the Marquee or the early Friars club I used to stand at the edge of the stage where I could hear the backline. In larger places such as town halls, or the de Montfort hall in Leicester, I’d stand by the mixing desk.
The sound for the band wasn’t much better. There was little in the way of vocal monitoring. I got to sing through Edgar Broughton’s mic during one gig, and I could hardly hear myself above the band.
I think the first fully miked band I saw was Cozy Powells Hammer in 1974 and all I can really remember it was ear damagingly loud and I was deaf and had ringing in my ears for the following week it was a huge PA for an art college gig. . I just remember thinking so many mikes on the drums. When they hit the first song the audience literal all stepped back from the stage it was that loud.
As for amazing live stuff, I think a lot of that era was heavily overdubbed in the studio with solo's dropped in and drums often replayed to tighten stuff up.
The other factor was many of those band clocked up 100's of gigs so certainly could play. And I saw loads of band two or 3 times and you have to say a year was a long time and bands definitely got way tighter and together with the levels of regular gigging back then.
Must have been kinda soul destroying when they're trying to be great musicians! Although they were probably all off their faces anyway so likely didn't care too much!
Similarly, there was only one major outdoor festival - The Reading Festival. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to go, as he had a spare seat in his car. We just turned up on the day, and paid at the entrance. Then chose our own patch on the grass in front of the stage. The weather was fortunately good in 1967, and quite a lineup on stage.
Sometimes there would be mics that looked like they were double ended (oor er mrs). Was that for noise/feedback cancellation?
I saw Free in their heyday at the Albert Hall. Koss and Andy Fraser had four Marshall stacks.... each! Either Simon Kirk was the heaviest hitting drummer ever or his kit was miked up. I do have vague recollections of overhead mic’s hanging above the kit in that era. Coming home from gigs with ears ringing was a regular thing and probably why I have tinnitus these days.
Getting some insight into how far things have come on with technology - and a feel for the amount of work that went into gigging...which I guess is the bottom line when it comes to a 'classic' performance. Superb.
Edit: PS Whatever other problems, I would love to have had the chance to play a show with a Bluesbreaker 2 x12 combo cranked up. Doesn't seem possible. Can only imagine what it would be like standing in front of a 100watt stack..too much. Thanks again for some fascinating insights.
@steven70 I did a college gig in the eighties using a 100 watt Marshall Jubilee into a 4 X 12" cab turned up full for the whole gig. It was mentally loud but you kinda get used to it
As primitive as it was at least music back then was almost all live .... The Who used a lot of pre recorded backing but nothing like bands use now. These days most big shows are done to a click because it solves a lot of technical problems like time syncing lights, movie clips and samples but also because it offers redundancy in any performance issues. Shania Twain audiences were actually listening to the vocals from the week before at a totally different gig at 2 or 3 venues on one tour because Shania had voice problems .... as the whole show is done to a click every performance is the same so using a vocal, guitar or keyboard track from another performance isn't an issue. In my own band we use this trick for rehearsals ... if the bass player or keyboard player can't make rehearsal it doesn't matter, just use the bass or keyboard tracks from another show .. it's all done to the same click tempos and always starts and stops in the place so it doesn't need to be played by a live person more than once. Never done it for a show but it would be no problem to do so.
Back in the day when everyone used wedges that would have been a problem ... you can't have clicks and prompts coming through something the audience can hear .... these days with all the band on ears it's not a problem.
Personally I like to hear bands in smallish venues of up to 1000 or so these days where everything still sounds great but it sounds live. Watching something like the Stones it's so distant audio-ably as well visually .... there's no way of telling what your hearing is what your see'ing.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
My band was one of the first in my area to use bass bins and tops and actually separate amps and crossovers.
Went right back to the old days with small vocal PA and very small monitors for singer and drummer. Just running off of backline. sounded great. if you had discipline.
Once you get beyond that volume it gets difficult to get a good even mix in the room with just backline. I'm not old enough to have been to big gigs pre-PA-system, but I've certainly heard enough bands being too loud in a small space like that...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein