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I can't write in any other languages (my Grandad used to know 5 languages for his job) so I'm in awe of anyone who knows another language fluently.
As for reading again, it's a depressing fact, but I find if I'm reading some books I have to keep rereading parts again and again... then reread the book again and again - it's taken me a very long time to question the virtue of speed reading, or reading a book once.. it's really hard to get all of a totally different perspective...
tell ya what, it's Friday - I'll shut up now! My gift to you
As I understand it, there's a few ways of viewing that "do you not like it because you came up with it?", "do you not like it because it's not had time to become familiar and be refined?", "do other people not like it?"..
The first seems silly - but sometimes I think somethings sounds crap because it only came from me.
Sometimes a thing sounds great till I realised it's snuck from someone else (then I think they still own it).
Some stuff I drop - partly because it's mine... but if you look at most of the catchiest stuff - it was bounced around a few musicians to get refined.
Some times the stuff I hate something for (even prior ownership) aren't recognised by others (sometimes even the prior owner!)
It ain't what ya do it's the way that you do it ...
In improvisation there's a lot to be said for limiting - ie limiting melodic options - stick to 4 notes for an entire solo - it creates ideas.
I suspect the same can be said of techniques and definitely rhythm - limited rhythms make music.
the fewer techniques you've got to pick from the more fun and exploration you do with those and that theme makes the music created more cohesive...
my kids have millions of toys and they don't settle to one... at their age I had lego and I played for hours on end... less is often more.
Most of my understanding about playing comes from the IGF course on Jazz and playing there... and a lot of wasted time prior to that... which I'm very keen to help others avoid.
Dario Cortese tells us to smile on stage and look at the audience... it works to calm us down and get good thoughts.
Helping people get on stage and off stage on the last night and jam nights I saw a lot of disappointment ... and almost all of it came from expectations being too high... if the audience is entertained that's good enough. "perfect is the enemy of good..." getting a cheer or some claps is easier than blowing everyone away - it allows you to work on your craft..
Sonny Rollins says "you've no time to think when you're playing music" so the trick is to not think... learn a load of licks... devise a load of licks get so familliar with them you're bored of them ... then jam and they'll break into parts and join with others the more you relax.
I am still learning it's nothing to do with range and everything to do with familiarity... like Wes Montgomery knowing 80 chords but all the uses of them... I don't think Ted Greene really did single note soloing as it all comes from his chord knowledge.... and then you've the Bruce Lee comment: I don't fear the man who's practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.
It's really hard to know what to specialise in
I wonder if he was lying and just saying what he thought people wanted to hear.
Brothers!
I live in the same town as Guthrie and Seth Govan and used to watch them play at the Bassment every Thursday.. for about 6 years...
In a family, everyone has to be unique, Guthrie plays loads of notes and Seth plays fewer and rumblier notes - on the occasion Seth starts playing fast people are wowed ... he spends minutes drawing them in... then when lets rip, he doesn't sound like a bass player playing fast... he sounds like 2 bass players!
I don't like playing with my brothers too much as I find it skews my playing to what they expect ...
but yeah, other people's stuff sounds better - I suspect because it's fresh.
When I've been to open mic sessions I've usually been intimidated by the level of ability... but returning the next time I realise that's their repertoire - few people are playing a massive range of tunes to a high ability... and after a turns the music is boring.
A good guitar teacher is also good. Mine had a happy wave of joy go over him when I used the code words 'i want to learn how to improvise'! He plays a rhythm and then will talk me through what I am doing and gives me ideas.
I practice for hours on my days off and have only been playing for just less than a year, I could say it is an addiction but the more I learn the more doorways open and then it becomes more exciting!
I am a very excitable, enthusiastic person, don't know what you are all like, but perhaps you need to think back to your original goals for learning. You don't get in a car without a destination! When was the last time you got really excited about your progress? Maybe strip everything back and then give yourself a timed achievable goal, eg by tomorrow I need to be able to recite the first pentatonic position in E ( my tutor gave me e first) I.e
03
02
02
02
03
03
then tomorrow learn the second position etc.
Also be able to play them and work through all 5 positions. Once you have done this think through some riffs and solos you already know in the key of e and you will see how it all fits in.
My teacher says that most famous guitarists will have there own favourite parts they like then they just improvise a run to that part of the neck to then play 'the old faithful'.
The main thing is to get back that excitement that spurred you on to get as far as you are now.
It's fun!
EDIT: This was one of my favourites. Each pair of notes is a pair of swung quavers.
R R, b3 4, 5 5, b7 R
Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
Hear a line in your mind and try to play it. (Start simply.)
Repeat this until you can play these lines without thinking.
Listen to a song. Hear a line in your mind that fits the music and try to play it. (Start simply.)
Repeat this until you can play these lines with a song without thinking.
Repeat this process, while increasing the complexity of the song.
Scales, arps, patterns etc are only the mechanics of the guitar, music is what you need to create.
P.S. Don't listen to good Jazz players, they are too good at improvisation and will scare you, because improvising is all they do.
He's right, but if you don't have these mechanics you will find it hard to create stuff that other people can relate to, because these things are patterns, hence even if assembled "randomly" there will be elements which get repeated, and people tend to relate to patterns ie things which have repeated elements in them.
try improvising a short story in a language without learning that language first
Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
scales are not a language any more than the alphabet is.
the problem with any system is that it has it's limitations, arpeggios are nothing more than scales played every other note... which gives harmony in thirds... chords are simply short-hand for harmonies (often in thirds but more interestingly in fouths).
the more traditions and expectations that brew up around any art - the more that art becomes a craft, more focussed on reproduction than originating. that's fine for most people... but be honest, it's not improvisation either.
Jimmy Bruno calls scales "tone selections" - they're a pallet, he avoids scales (from scala) because they describe ascents and descents between root nodes. Wayne Krantz calls them functions and remembers them as chords rather than sequences (easier to remember a theme).
I think McLauglin, Wooten, Di Meola and a few others ditched these arbitrary sub-divisions and just went for the chromatic... wanna play the lydian mode and then use a flat seventh? okay bubba no sweat no need to apply for a license to use the lydian dominant, you'll need a license to use the melodic minor first... hmm have you played two dominant chords a semi-tone apart before? you'll need a license for that too.
There are 3 types of chord and 12 notes - how hard do you need to make it?
I quite understand your zen-influenced thinking that basic musical techniques are not "everything", but you do beginners no favours if you try to dissuade them from learning the basics. You're letting them think they can run before they can walk.
Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
If this thread is "learning to improvise", I'm assuming that the mechanics of the guitar, fretboard mapping, arps, chords, scales etc, have already been learned many, many years ago, so you can concentrate on making music.
Did you learn to spell first or did you pick up the language by interacting with people?
For me, spelling and punctuation followed on as they were required... it's the decade or so of talking on forums that has created my use of punctuation - lessons that involve emotion are the quickest ways to learn... so make mistakes and feel the burn, or repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat...
I prefer living with my emotions and using them to comprehend stuff.... and yet, ironically I'm constantly accused of being intellectual
It's always been my experience that the best musicians have a hell of a lot of playing experience. That's the constant - the rest is the 5% icing on top.
When people say they need to learn arpeggios, I wonder if they need arpeggios really or they just feel humbled by some guitarist (talking) and have heard the word arpeggios.
All the best programmers I've met have years and years experience at programming - at that point the language and the operating system are largely irrelevant... the programmers who demand it be written in a language or work with an IDE, or using a development ideology/methodology are the shaky unreliable ones who cannot be counted on when the shit hits the fan.
@frankus has piled in with his usual zen-style don't learn any basics or rudiments, and the same old argument ensues. he's right that these things are not the be all and and all of music, but it has to be the devil's own lie that arps/scales cannot train the fingers to move, or that they are useless in giving people techniques by which they might express themselves ... I don't even mind if they are viewed purely as an observation of what a lot of other people play so we observe, analyse, distil, and come up with this abstraction which we call an arpeggio or a scale, but to dissuade beginners from acquiring them is pernicious abuse of the beginner
Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
I'm not saying don't learn it - I'm saying it plays a very limited role.
devils own lie -- ffs listen to yourself!
learning to transcribe your favourite pieces of music will give you all the technique and musicality you need, it just doesn't give you the labels to communicate with other players.
listening to music, transcribing and repertoire outstrip the importance of building blocks by several order of magnitude of orders of magnitude.
I've met you and the idea that your ability to get up and play originated from basics doesn't fit with the person I met - I think you picked that stuff up much much later and that is why it works for you. I could be wrong... it's got to happen some time, but I'm having a hard time believing all this name calling and accusations "pernicious abuse" (.. really?) would ever come from a person simply expressing how they've learnt (their experience of a life in music) - it's far far more likely to come from a person defending a belief - they're the people who decry, name-call, mud sling and call foul play..
so which is it?
The way I learned music was in the classical tradition, keeping the 3 plates of practice, performance and theory spinning at equal speeds through the grades system. That level-pegging approach worked for me and I am happy with where it brought me. I'm glad I learned some theory and I've enjoyed translating the stuff that resonated with me to the guitar. I'm still learning lots of theory and meanwhile I find improvisation quite a natural activity (albeit within my capabilities and comfort zones). But I do imagine classical training could be a hindrance to improvising; a bit like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle - maybe the more honed as a classical performer and sight-reader you become, the less leaning you may have towards improvisation. But obviously many have managed both, and obviously all the great composers were all brilliant instrumentalists too. They couldn't have written what they did without deep understanding of musical theory and instrumental knowledge. But I definitely wouldn't say one needed training in the classical tradition to be able to improvise.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
In the grand scheme of things, the basics are just that, an anthill on the foothills of a huge mountain. However I have to say that you came across to me as decrying the basics, which I saw as highly detrimental to the development of a beginner.
I do have some ability to play by ear, but like @viz I also learned classical arpeggios & scales from an early age, so I can't give you a definitive answer as to whether I'd be able to play by ear without having learned them. I will say though that people with some feel for music and ability at it but who haven't learned such things seem to have difficulty in picking up riffs & phrases that I might play to them, they're more interested in copying which strings/frets I put my fingers on. Hence I think anyone who dissuades a beginner from acquiring these things does them a great disservice. You may not feel that you were doing such a thing but it seemed to me that you were, and I think it is very wrong, hence I used strong terminology.
Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself