South Western Railway.

RobDavies · December 2019

A month of strikes by staff means that I won’t be able to travel by train to three football matches and four gigs - I’ve paid for all seven in advance.

Even as someone who’s quite pro-union, I’ve had enough of the RMT.

I’m a member of a fairly strong trade union and if we went on strike for a month running up to Christmas, the entire country would grind to a halt, the entire UK economy would collapse and hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs. But we don’t do that because, we’ll... we’re not crunts.

Fuck the RMT.

munckee · December 2019

RobDavies said:

A month of strikes by staff means that I won’t be able to travel by train to three football matches and four gigs - I’ve paid for all seven in advance.

Even as someone who’s quite pro-union, I’ve had enough of the RMT.

I’m a member of a fairly strong trade union and if we went on strike for a month running up to Christmas, the entire country would grind to a halt, the entire UK economy would collapse and hundreds of thousands of people would lose their jobs. But we don’t do that because, we’ll... we’re not crunts.

Fuck the RMT.

They had someone from the RMT on meridian (southerners la la la la), when Fred said SWT had guaranteed a second presence would be on the train for each journey, and that their role would be safety critical, they confirmed that's not enough because they didn't specify their exact activities.

I agree - sex the RMT.

thumpingrug · December 2019

Its reduced the number fo trains through my village by half. They sound they horns at 6.15 in the morning so Im quite happy at the moment as the early on is now half an hour later.

fandango · December 2019

Never impressed by trade unions at best of times. They are indeed right cnuts for treating their clientele like this. Dinosaurs. They killed British Leyland in the 70’s. They killed it for the miners in the 80’s. I hope they get what they deserve - nothing.

bgmartinsbridge · December 2019

Not having a dig at all but it's interesting how the British do so little complaining compared to the rest of Europe.

Half of France is currently out on strike because they want to increase the pension age of train drivers from early fifties upwards.

And to be clear I'm not a leftie that goes around calling people Comrad!

scrumhalf · December 2019

The spirit of Bob Crow lives on.

So far the RMT have predicted gloom and doom due to:

- One man train operation

- Driverless trains

- Automatic fare collection

- Ticket office cliosure

and yet there are still millions using the tube every day and living to tell the tale.

Kittyfrisk · December 2019

bgmartinsbridge said:

Not having a dig at all but it's interesting how the British do so little complaining compared to the rest of Europe.

Half of France is currently out on strike because they want to increase the pension age of train drivers from early fifties upwards.

And to be clear I'm not a leftie that goes around calling people Conrad!

FTFY

Funkfingers · December 2019

Are these the same railways staff who get upset when they receive personal abuse from the general public?

Employment law forbids targeted punitive dismal. What might be legal is to sack all staff and selectively rehire.

prowla · December 2019

Well, if South Western Failway could operate a decent service then I might have more of an inclination to believe what they say.

But they can't run a train service; I did 7 late train claims on the weekend for last week.

Some people play South Western Failway bingo!

They didn't run my service on Sunday at all (the day before the strike).

For the strike they cut the trains from 4 an hour to 2 and published an "amended" (not "reduced") timetable for it in advance, so you couldn't claim for the trains they've missed out.

People who buy a season ticket in advance can just get stuffed as far as they are concerned; they've got your money, so why should they car?

This morning they also cut out every other train from the 2, so they only scheduled 1 an hour, and they didn't manage to run even one within the hour whilst I waited to go to work.

The company is the worst I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with, and they sacked their MD last week for his mishandling of the whole thing.

As to the guards issue, the RMT contention is that the guard should be responsible for closing the doors on every train; now I personally don't like the idea of there being just one person responsible for operating the train, checking everybody is on, safety, and so-on, and with unmanned stations. So I am with the RMT on the principle.

On a safety matter, they've been refurbing some trains, but when they brought them back into service they found they weren't triggering the red track signals properly. The company is seriously bad.

This evening, before coming home, I checked the times in the afternoon and they said service was resumed, but then when I was about to head out the app said that my train was "Delayed", and continued to do so, so I stayed later. When I checked again after it was too late for me to catch it the app said it had left 5 minutes late. So they tricked me there.

Another of their tricks is if they find they are running late, they'll skip stops on the way or terminate the journey early and turf everybody off to catch the next train.

South Western Failway is a shockingly bad company and should be stripped of the franchise.

LoFi · December 2019

While I can't argue with most of that criticism of SWR (are you on the Reading-Waterloo line? The problems yesterday were massively exacerbated by a signalling failure that's outside of their control), I really can't find any sympathy for the RMT on this one - SWR have guaranteed guards a "safety-critical role" both on the current fleet and on the incoming one, so who cares who pushes the button for the doors?

I'm actually rather baffled by the current process, at least for the opening of the doors - the guard opens his own door, gets out, looks up and down the train then opens the rest. I can understand why he might need to check before closing, but the only possible reason I can think of for this is the minute risk that someone might be injured by the doors pushing out 10cm then sliding to the side - is this the justification?

TheBigDipper · December 2019

I'm a frequent (monthly?) user of SWT for the mainline from Christchurch to Waterloo. It's a good service from my point of view. I've never used one of their commuter trains, though. A different kettle of fish, I expect. I never lived far enough from Central London to use an overground train service from the suburbs or Home Counties.

There's a difference between commuters with season tickets and long distance travel. I think a long distance train needs a guard to help passengers (who often travel by train just once or twice a year), sell tickets (the ticket machines and booking offices are often not working, or closed, on smaller stations) and handle on-train issues.

The RMT is losing the public sympathy vote and starting to look like they're just trying to leverage the change to get paid some more money. The mainline through Christchurch seems to be running 50% of the timetable service at the mo.

siremoon · December 2019

prowla said:

On a safety matter, they've been refurbing some trains, but when they brought them back into service they found they weren't triggering the red track signals properly. The company is seriously bad.

I don't disagree that SWR is a shambles but that bit is not their fault. What is happening is the trains concerned are causing a couple of signals to drop to red when they should not, one at Earlsfield and one near Southampton. Fail safe but capable of giving drivers a brown trouser moment.

When built the trains causing the problem were fitted with electric traction equipment recovered from the previous generation of Bournemouth Line stock built by BR in the 60s. That earlier stock was found to be capable of causing signals to flash like disco lights if the driver juggled the power controller in a particular way, this latest problem is just a variant on that original problem. When the trains last ran on the SW (between 1988 and 2007) the problem didn't occur because BR had immunised the signalling in response to the original 1960s problem. Since then some signalling equipment has been replaced by NR and in a couple of locations is not proving to be as resilient to the interference as the equipment it replaced.

sweepy · December 2019

In these days of increasing Automation we must look at every job lost as a Family that might go short, Spending power out of the economy and in this case, safety for vulnerable passengers. Unions do a fantastic job and they have my full support in this and future actions . Yes, I have been affected by this as I have a 5 hr round trip Xmas eve to collect my daughter but you won’t find me grumbling as I have solidarity with their cause and contempt for a system that places shareholders above customers

siremoon · December 2019

LoFi said:

I'm actually rather baffled by the current process, at least for the opening of the doors - the guard opens his own door, gets out, looks up and down the train then opens the rest. I can understand why he might need to check before closing, but the only possible reason I can think of for this is the minute risk that someone might be injured by the doors pushing out 10cm then sliding to the side - is this the justification?

No. The stated reason for it is in case the driver hasn't stopped the train in the right place and part of it is not in the platform. The number of instances of drivers not stopping with the whole train in a platform into which it would have fitted is very tiny indeed so it is rather more an attempt to justify the role of the guard than an essential safety measure. In any event the newer SW trains have equipment which prevents doors off the platform opening anyway so when the new inner suburban fleet comes in this procedure will (or ought to be) superfluous.

LoFi · December 2019

sweepy said:

In these days of increasing Automation we must look at every job lost as a Family that might go short, Spending power out of the economy and in this case, safety for vulnerable passengers. Unions do a fantastic job and they have my full support in this and future actions . Yes, I have been affected by this as I have a 5 hr round trip Xmas eve to collect my daughter but you won’t find me grumbling as I have solidarity with their cause and contempt for a system that places shareholders above customers

I'm afraid that's an argument in favour of "Buggy Whip Manufacturers" (I know you and I have had a similar disagreement elsewhere regarding automated checkouts in supermarkets). Someone whose job is automated or disappears due to progress has my sympathy but that's progress. I *do* think there should be a guard on every train, and what's important in this dispute is that SWR haven't proposed removing them, just that they don't need to operate the doors. The RMT are arguing that without this, they become "glorified porters" without safety responsibilities, which seems ludicrous, and suggests they have no other safety responsibilities (such as looking after vulnerable passengers, as you state).

I'd also suggest it's rather easier to feel solidarity for their cause when they're inconveniencing you for 5 hours on one day (in your case) rather than for several hours for 20+ days throughout December (in commuters' cases).

Clecko · December 2019

The arguments the RMT have been making for years hold no water and their strike action is unacceptable IMO. It's an abuse of their leverage and I lost any scrap of sympathy with them some time back.

bbill335 · December 2019

re-re-re-re-renationalise!

Haych · December 2019

I don't use SWT in any regular capacity so I have no experience, good or bad, to report. As a regular rail user, though, I think the actions of the RMT are diabolical.

A 27 day strike is madness and cynical especially at this time of year and designed to turn rail users against SWT, IMHO. However, I don't think the public are duped and most are fully aware that it's the RMT holding SWT over a barrel over who gets to close the bloody doors, like anyone who gets on and off the train gives a toss - we're just happy if they turn up on time.

To be equally cynical I believe this is job justification gone mad. If the RMT weren't crying, kicking and screaming over some non-issue there would be no visible need for them.

LoFi · December 2019

siremoon said:

No. The stated reason for it is in case the driver hasn't stopped the train in the right place and part of it is not in the platform. The number of instances of drivers not stopping with the whole train in a platform into which it would have fitted is very tiny indeed so it is rather more an attempt to justify the role of the guard than an essential safety measure. In any event the newer SW trains have equipment which prevents doors off the platform opening anyway so when the new inner suburban fleet comes in this procedure will (or ought to be) superfluous.

OK, I guess that makes marginally more sense...

siremoon · December 2019

bbill335 said:

re-re-re-re-renationalise!

Absolutely.

Under BR the trains always ran on time, were clean and immaculately presented, never broke down and there were never any industrial relations problems at all.

In the modern context the state owned Network Rail and the DfT are doing an absolutely first class job. The infrastructure never fails and every single problem is down to the franchised Train Operators. Putting them under direct DfT control will clearly benefit everybody.

crunchman · December 2019

The Underground hasn't had guards for years though. There are some short platforms where the last couple of doors don't open, but the technology does allow trains to be safely operated without a guard. Yes there are normally staff on the platforms at the busy central stations, but not out in the suburbs.

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