Hi guys,
I have a new/old PRS I want to put into one of three tunings, depending on my level of success:
1. Baritone standard - BEADF#B (sometimes drop-A)
2. C# standard - C#F#BEAbC# (sometimes drop-B)
3. Custom - B????E (hybrid tuning to be developed running from baritone bass end to standard top end)
My questions:
1. Does anyone know the thickest string gauge a PRS Phase 1 tuner will accommodate? I don't have the right measuring tool to hand and I don't really want to modify the tuner or waste money on sets of strings I can't get in there.
2. Are the "affordable" (like £10 for a set) nut files on eBay any good or do you need to shell out for expensive? Or is there another tool that works just as well but isn't labelled "guitar nut file"? Links would be handy please if you know any.
3. The PRS is 25" scale and I like my strings quite taut, like a .048-.011 at standard tuning. In the above tunings, what gauges would I need to get that kind of feel?
4. I'm told that anything over .020 unwound is basically unfit for purpose. I'm accordingly looking at the Mammoth Slinky (12-62) set which has a wound 3rd string, or a Power Slinky 7-string set and toss the 1st string (14-58), so also a wound 3rd string. Am I making too much of this? I still want to get decent resonance and sustain across the board and I've deliberately excluded the Not Even Slinky set which looks good but has a plain .024 3rd, which I've seen people say is no good.
5. The above sets would be for tunings 1 & 2. For tuning 3 I'm looking at a Skinny Top Beefy Bottom set, which is 10-13-17-32-44-54. Is .054 still too light to get a good tight pull in A or B at 25" scale?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Comments
The remedy was a wound g, but I think my reading at the time suggested scale length played a part in it too, though I’m not actually sure if it wasnt just it being a thick plain string in itself tbh!
I detuned the same RGA (25.5) with a 10 - 48 onto it to a baritone B tuning and it sounded pretty good. However, the was a massive drop in tension as expected. My 26.5 scale 6 string has 12 - 60 strings on it and I have found that its good but an extra inch is always good (so Ive been told)
Conclusion, on a 25 inch scale, I would expect a 0.54 to be ok to get onto the guitar at C# tuning and tension be ok. However, anything less than that tension probably you wouldnt enjoy.
My recommendation is to get a longer scale if tension is a deal breaker. Squier have released a baritone (27 inch) Cab for £350, Subzero do a 27 and 30 inch scale for around £200.
Id also suggest considering a pick up change too as the thickers strings may sound different on your current pick ups but thats your preference!
1. If the string won't fit in the tuner, you can unwind enough of the outer wrap so that it ends before the machinehead. I've had to do that on a couple of baritone conversions - a bit of a faff, but you don't need to change the strings very often usually.
2. You can use toolmakers' needle files for the larger gauges, or adapt hacksaw blades by hammering them flat and grinding the edges, but they require a fair bit more care to use than proper files.
3. BEADF#B is easy - that starts at the same gauge you would normally use for your B (2nd) string, because it's the same string! Just in a different position - as are all the first five (the G goes down to F#, but it won't really matter) - so you can use the bottom five strings from your normal set of 11s and add a low B. I find about a 65 works well - you can adapt a double-ball-end bass string by cutting off the *big* (bass size) ball end and using the small (guitar size) one.
C# probably needs a gauge lighter, so start at a 13 and use the standard 10 gauges, probably with a 60 or so for the low C#.
The hybrid set you can work out from what would be the closest strings to the notes you're tuning to, and go up or down a little if the pitch is lower or higher.
4. You want a wound 3rd, yes. I once did an A-A baritone Tele which needed a wound (22 gauge) 2nd. I know some of the down-tuning people do use a plain 3rd, but for me anything below D standard just sounds bad with one.
5. Probably too light.
Hope that helps!
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
To accommodate larger strings, it would be necessary to remove more steel from the flat spot on the tuning post. This may weaken the post.
@Jetfire makes two good points, both based on practical research experience. Firstly, that increased scale length aids string tension. Secondly, about pickups.
I can not tell you how to spend your disposable income. OTOH, I do suggest that you seek a guitar that has been designed from scratch for your intended purpose.
Check out the PRS SE series demonstration videos for the 277, Holcombe and Holcombe SVN. One of these models even has the signature Seymour Duncan humbuckers.
I suspect that my strings would probably feel quite a bit slacker than yours do, but they’re certainly not hanging off the guitar, I don’t have any problems with tuning or intonation.
Not actually sure how much help I’ve been here...
Is this even a good idea?
The guitar is really, properly good, so am I just wasting my time trying to make it do something it wasn't intended to do? Should I be limiting it to drop C# and just looking at a dedicated baritone or 7-string for my expeditions into lower registers?
As always thanks everyone for your valuable comments.
It’s worth saying this again for any naysayers - a standard guitar is *already* a baritone on the bottom five strings. All you’re doing is moving them over one position and substituting a low B for the high E... so if the guitar will handle the low B it will work fine.
Longer scale lengths do help slightly, but aren’t actually necessary unless you’re going even lower, down into what is really 6-string bass (E-E) territory.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
As an aside, I do very much like this forum and the people on it, you guys always have helpful and constructive solutions for my questions. Nice one.
I play in drop a# at the lowest on a 24.75 inch scale neck and use 12-56's. It just about holds up!
Different people are going to give you different answers, based on their tastes and playing styles.
Answering purely from my own experience I think 25" is a bit short for tunings below C, if you want tight string tension and the low string to have a bright attack. And especially if you pick quite hard (I do for some of the music I make).
Yes you can put a thicker low string on but at a certain point the attack of the low string starts getting duller, and again at another point gets very different sounding to the other strings. This isn't necessarily bad but it's something to be aware of and it depends if you like it. The trade-off for using a thinner brighter sounding string at lower tunings on shorter scales is you get a larger pitch arc when you pick hard (as in the string goes quite sharp, then decays flatter). That can sound cool in some genres, but could also sound kind of out of tune in others.
I've found that after .060 things start sounding different, and at .066 and beyond the sixth string has a totally different attack to the rest of the wound strings. Also the thicker you go the quicker the low string loses the top end as it is used.
For a few years I was using the D'Addario 11-56 set and swapping out the 56 for a .064 or .066, with a medium action, but now I've got evertunes installed on my main guitars and I don't need to swap in a thicker low string.
I did put an evertune on my Singlecut, right now it has 12-60 strings on in drop B with a nice comfortable action and I can play it as hard as I fancy and it won't sound sharp. I've not put an evertune on my Les Paul and I think it currently has a .072 low B on it which is nice for tension but changes the vibe quite a bit.
The guitarist from Bring Me The Horizon uses a .080 for his low A# string on his Les Paul from what I understand.
I do make music where the guitars get used against synths so I prefer my guitars to sound as in tune as possible, again this might not apply if you don't make that kind of music or want a different vibe.
While you can tune low on standard scales it won’t sound the same as doing it on a baritone, the longer scale does change the voicing and also the different string gauges needed will change the tone and pitch arc (in combination with the scale). From what I’m noticing some genres of modern low tuned music are more commonly done on longer scales than others.
Another thing is that while bands will use low tuned standard scale instruments live they sometimes used baritones in the studio, which further confuses the matter
I’ve found this with other locking tuners too, locking Rotomatics on my Les Paul would only just fit an .059, so my sixth tuner is a non locking one right now to fit heavier strings