Gigs....remember them?
So, just had a bit of an epiphany moment (either that or I've had too much coffee) and I'm actually starting to wonder if my constant battling with how things feel under fingers live vs home is actually to do with my delay mixes.
I tend to use a pretty low mixed delay on my lead sounds to just fill the sound out (and cover up my bum notes!) - at home its fine and nice an easy, however, at gig levels I have always felt that my sounds are a bit dry and exposed (if that makes sense) - if I turn that delay off at home then that dry feeling returns - so I'm wondering of those delay mixes are too quiet at gig volume?
Now I know some of you will say practice without delay, but a lot of the stuff we tend to do (80's rock mainly) does lend itself to needing that type of gained up, delayed sound.
so, do you all run higher mixes in a live setting vs what you run at lower volume/home settings?
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At home, you can hear the delay even if the first echo is 1/4 the volume of the dry sound.
Once there's the rest of a band playing along and your guitar is set so that your dry sound can be heard but doesn't drown out the rest of the band, that first delay at 1/4 volume is totally lost in the mix in exactly the same way that your playing would be if you turned the amp's volume down 75%.
So, just turn the delay up until you hear what you want to hear. But then maybe turn the feedback down so it's not muddying things up.
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I find a high delay setting with the right ducking really helps to expand the sound and fill things nicely - especially with dual delays / circular delays in stereo.
I also tend to have the delays in parallel - the lead delay is 100% mix and -6db level.
Having said that what isn't nice is hearing too much delay, that you've got a mate playing along slightly out of time thing. My impression is that's often just too much digital delay. Tiny amount of reverb can soften the trails as well
Bumblefoot did a couple of tc toneprints at one point, if I ever suddenly start playing 80s rock they would be my starting place. There's a video of Paul Gilbert showing how he gets his 'ambience' from delay+reverb somewhere. I think he does use digital delay but reverb and often a bit of modulation softens it out. Again, quite often more delay than you'd think but it disappears to some extent in the band mix.
What I’m drawing from this thread is that I should be using louder but shorter delay and reverb trains.
I find ducking delay very song dependent and I’ve made the mistake of setting the ducking amount too high such that the trails swelling back in is too noticable (when the rest of the band turn to look at you) and not in a good way.
I like delay but if the delays out of time with the song it doesn't work as well and jars a bit
*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
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I think there is really no substitute to asking a friend to video you playing live - and try a couple of different delay effects levels. Even if the video quality is not great, you should be able to get a decent idea of what the best level is for the sound in your head.
I’d tend to have the mix as high as I could get it sensibly but with a darker delay or one that lets you roll the top off. It kind of gives you that wash behind the guitar whilst still allowing clarity for your playing. Same for the verb.
BTW - which of your guitar idols has the best delay sounds you like ? And would they fit your band style / material ?
Us 80s boys can't do without our delay
Massive Lukather/Schon fan here and I suppose that’s the type of thing I gravitate to and it does fit in with 80% of the material we cover - the other stuff I do ease back on the fx to suit the song instead of making an 80’s guitar sound full of pitch detune, circular delays and gain fit into Brown Eyed Girl (I ‘kin hate that song…)
and yes Cos @Kebabkid we 80’s kids definitely can’t do without a bit of delay…:-)