Hi,
Since getting the little Marshall CODE 25 box to practice with the resident drummer (wife), I have been bitten by the Marshall bug. I have been considering stereo Marshalls (valvestate s80 and others) for my bedroom, but I am not sure I will be able to find one in good condition (or any condition). I have also tried the new MGs but the earth didn't move. So I am now considering a range of options. One of the amps that has captured my attention is the Marshall Class 5. I like it very much, but I have never used valves before and I have a set of questions.
- I've read that they can be played quietly (0.1W). How quiet is it really? Clean without disturbing housemates, overdriven without disturbing housemates, or overdriven without disturbing neighbours?
- At 0.1W... does it mean it draws 0.1W of power? I've read that the class A amp is inefficient and lots of power goes away as heat.
- Do you think the Class 5 would make a good pedal platform? I love my pedals.
- How frequently would I have to change the valves?
- I've read that it has three valves. Would I have to change them all at the same time? How expensive (ballpark) would that be?
Thanks!
Jon
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EDIT: I'm summarising the things I've learned from the discussion here, to save you time in case you have landed on this thread from a search engine:
- I shall not buy anything valve without trying it first.
- Having an effects loop is a good thing if your valve amp hasn’t got a master volume. Little amp box thingy.
- Home use: 1W is very loud, 0.5W still very loud but maybe Ok. Master volume needed to tame anything over 0.1W probably.
- Pedals help get grit at lower volumes.
- Valves are more resistant than they look, may last for five years. Single power valve makes life easier for replacements.
- Not keen on Bonamassa.
Comments
At its lowest power setting it can get quite loud…..
I think its a great pedal platform
The lower wattage settings don't always sound that good.
Unless you're cranking it a lot the tubes should last years- though you can always be unlucky. You don't have to change them all at once, on a single-ender like that you can change them individually. Also the preamp tubes are even more unlikely to need to be changed. You can also usually change tubes yourself on a single-ender, as they don't need to be biased.
Full wattage cranked is going to be way too loud for most home settings.
Don't get me wrong, I do quite like low wattage amps for certain things, but they're kind of sold as the solution to "cranked up bedroom tones" and they're really not. Unless they have a really low wattage setting. And sound good at that setting. Or you're willing to get an expensive attenuator.
The Origin 5 seems to be almost universally hated too, although I haven’t tried one - but I disliked the Origin 20 even in the high-power mode and found the lower ones unusable.
The smaller DSLs - new ones, not the older DSL201/401 - seem pretty decent though.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
The only real problems with that being that they tend to be more expensive, and also usually require a rebias when changing the power valves (plus revalving will be more expensive as you need more and more expensive valves (the power valves, anyway)).
Not to derail the thread, but since this is kind of relevant to my interests too (and might help @Yorkie too... that's my excuse at least, and I'm sticking to it!)... what would you say is the best Marshall for low volume/home playing for a range of tones from classic lower gain tones (including cleans) to modern high gain? DSL? JVM? And would it sound different enough from my Laney GH50L to be worthwhile?
Shame really, they are ( or were ) a great introduction the old school Marshall sound.
The problem seems to be, people equate wattage with sound, and this is very wrong, the Class 5, at 5 watts is easily loud enough to gig with, and probably can keep up with the loudest drummers, with some caveats.
The circuit is very basic, and has no real tone shaping that can adjust for the valve distortion at high volumes, you simply get what it is.
Check out the Bonamassa launch vid at Ronnie Scotts, to see what happens, and there is another early Andertons vid of a single Class 5 in an empty warehouse, as extreme examples.
I have plenty of experience with them, I own 4, 2 stock ones-combo and head, and 2 Rat modded ones, combo and head again.
The Rat mods have switched bias, a more tuned tone stack, and a power scaled master volume, plus effects loop, so they kind of improve on the basic 4 knob model, and make it much more flexible for home use, I like them a lot.
I also like to run a stock C5 head through a Weber attenuator into a 4 x 12, with G75s, and the clean sound is pretty amazing, and a perfect pedal platform, missing an fx loop though.
I know you like the Code 25, but be careful it doesn't raise your expectations of a Class 5, very different experience indeed.
As an example, I ran my 50 watt JCM900 Mk3 ( the early one, basically an 800 with mods ) through a Marshall powerbrake at it's highest setting (virtually silent ) into a Class 5 cab ( single 10 inch open back speaker ), with all knobs set half way, and the sound was amazing, and still slightly too loud for my small flat.
The secret here, is that the amp is designed for a very specific use, with the tones voiced to be ideal at half way, ie, equal amounts of cut and boost, and with volume at half way, there is room to clean up, or go louder.
I think the 50 watt version was built because the stock 100 was just too loud, this style of amp needs the output valves to be doing a lot of the work, and in the 90s, the very gainy sound became popular, which is why people started to add diode clipping to the front end of their 800s, and the earlier JMP / plexi style amps. The quest for crunch.
Cut back to the Class 5, and people see a cute retro looking 5 watt combo, and expect all that in this small package.
If you can pick one up for around £200, (you can) you will see what the fuss is all about, but don't expect miracles, and learn to enjoy it for what it is, a baby plexi, which can sound great on it's own - if you can get it in the sweet spot ( you can't ), or a good pedal platform-with some limitations ( no fx loop ).
If you get brave, you can start to add the features you want, if you can find someone willing to do the work, or as a last resort, they do make nice bits of furniture.
*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
In my opinion, it sounds much better than the Laney... although that's subjective I know!
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Totally agree. The JVM is amazing at low vols.
*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
How does the 410 compare? I think Thomann has the 410 head for less than the 210 head goes for here- I don't need 12 (!) channels for switching between, but (from reading the manual) it looks like the 410 has quite a bit more channels aimed at the type of tones I would like. That being said, if the 210 sounds better...
Also, am I right in thinking there's a bit of channel switching delay (or did they fix that)? And also I think there's a mosfet in the resonance circuit? (Don't think I'm that worried about that, just wondering... )
The GH50 is indeed a hot-rodded Marshall 2203 circuit, but to me they've never sounded quite 'right' - Laneys have often been basically Marshall copies, but for various reasons they don't sound the same.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I know word on the net was always that the Satriani version was the best, but I never got round to trying one. Not sure why they didn't just keep it, but I'm guessing there's some reason behind that to do with the fact it used to be a signature or something like that.
What's a G12M-70? I don't think I've ever come across it before.
Just out of interest, does the 50 watt version sound better?
And yeah, I've heard that about the Laney from several people online whose opinions I trust. I've never tried them head to head, so I don't know... but I definitely wonder!
here it is in stereo with a 1965 Deluxe at house clean vols
https://youtu.be/-J2aA0h8xq8
*An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.
Most people prefer the 100w 4 channel JVMs (mostly for OD1 Orange mode I assume) but hearing them side to side I liked the 205H the best and the OD orange sounds great to me. Generally I prefer the more midrangey sound (to my ears) of 50w amps.
I've got the cabinet from an old TSL122 combo which I scrapped for parts - I was going to sell the speakers, but they sound so good together, and the ex-combo cabinet is so light and convenient (open back, of course) that I've decided to keep it. (Or unless someone makes me a *very* good offer .)
This, exactly - all the Laneys that are based on Marshall circuits seem to be like this... tighter, darker/lower-middy, and grainier. That's also why I think the Catalinbread DLS pedal doesn't sound like a MIAB, it's a LIAB .
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Not quite what the OP is asking though is it?
More options = more channels = more valves = more money.
Class 5 plus pedals of choice is definitely in the OP's wheelhouse, but I agree, larger more fully specced models might be better in the long run.
Personally, I think something in the SC range of 20 watt heads, plus a choice of cabs and a good attenuator would be the ideal route, probably a plexi voiced one, rather than a jubilee / 800 voiced one.
I'm not aiming for a particular type of dirt or distorted tone myself, just something with a nice tone to start with, which will involve some power tube saturation.
Pretty hard to get really, at low volumes, with tubes.