Are Helix type devices any better than a 20 year old POD?

Rocker · December 2023

The Helix is only one of many similar devices available but I still get great sounds from my POD. The POD is relatively simple to use and while the newer devices ‘do more’, have the sounds they make improved enough to actually consider buying one? I don’t have the floorboard controller for my POD but that doesn’t seem such a drawback considering I tend to set it and forget it. The stereo output is an unexpected bonus, the POD can be connected directly into the PA so simply put - what does a new unit give that the POD doesn’t?

fretmeister · December 2023

They are astonishingly better. Far more realistic sounds to the point that many albums are recorded with current generation modellers and the listener cannot tell.

Helix, Kemper, Fractal, Neural, all have professional users for gigging and for recording.
Nobody is using 20 year old PODS for that anymore.

Roland · December 2023

Rocker said:

… what does a new unit give that the POD doesn’t?

Better Amp modelling. Greater range and better quality FX.

Danny1969 · December 2023

Certainly better than a Pod but not massively in terms of core amp sounds IMHO. The Pod was actually used on loads of major label albums at the time. Bob Clearmountain wasn't a fan as he found getting them to sit in the mix was tricky. He blamed the convertors but then he's married to the CEO of Apogee

Personally I think the Helix is overrated. The Kemper sounds better to my ears but all these things are expensive and there are cheap options that are 90% there.
Checkout the Nux mightplug at £55 ... you can set 7 distinct presets with different amps, effects etc. It's got a built in drum machine and you can use it with headphones or plug it straight into a PA. It also works as a recording interface and you can bluetooth backing tracks or songs to it from any BT device.
It has a better Marshall amp model than the Helix to my ears and I also prefer the cab simms. It's an absolute bargain to the point I pulled the guts out of one unit I brought to install into a Marshall Grindmaster modelling amp I'm making

impmann · December 2023

Tbh, Mr Clearmountain speaketh bollocks. Plus many many huge records made using Pods by other producers.

Much is made of Helix sounding ‘better’ than a pod but actually… they do sound good. Surprisingly so - they just need dialing in, like any piece of equipment.

Bad workmen and all that…

Winny_Pooh · December 2023

New stuff sounds much better. Sure Pods were used back in the day but those sounds were not great and it was what people had. You can get away with some things in a dense mix.
The fact that you dont see anyone using them anymore speaks volumes.

Something like a Kemper is Radically better in a recording mix and played solo.

Danny1969 · December 2023

One of the issues for me, in the studio was getting the Pod to sound in the same space as instruments that were recorded in the live room. Obviously with no natural room ambience and no reverb added it was too in your face and too dry, same as the Sansamp direct amp DI's I liked at the time. So I quickly went back to mic'ing amps and putting the Pod into the front end of the amp that was mic'ed.
Years later in a larger studio I got into sending things that were recorded direct back into the live room via a PA we had set up in there, then we used stereo room mic's to pick that up and mixed it alongside the dry audio to give that dry stuff the ambience of the large live room.

The Vox / Korg Valvetronix stuff that came in the early noughties was a big step up from the Pod IMHO and is still one of my favourite modellers now .... not the modern stuff, the early Tonelab SE floorboard. I would rather use that than a Helix for amp sounds but the Helix has superior pitch harmony and better delays and reverbs than the Korg.

Everyone hears things different though, I only know what I like.

impmann · December 2023

Danny1969 said:

Everyone hears things different though, I only know what I like.

Perfectly put mate. Totally agree.

Although I'd venture that nobody would be able to pick out a Pod vs Kemper vs Fender Deluxe mic'd up accurately... I say that as someone who'd seen similar done recently.

Like I say... much bollocks is spoken, especially on forums about how *this* modelling is 'better' than *that*. But when it all comes down - prejudice and confirmation bias mean that a persons' own experience of using or hearing such modelling is usually swayed by other things.

Kalimna · December 2023

I've been pondering a modeller-type affair for a while, and if you set aside the 'which is better for amp and fx modelling' argument aside, how much does the user interface differ between units? If one was to assume (rightly or wrongly) that they will all sound *approximately* the same, then are some much easier to dial in than others? Are some better for adjusting on the fly? What about the robustness/longevity of the units?
Im sure I'll still be pondering a purchase when the Helix hits its 3rd iteration, however!

adam

Lewy · December 2023

impmann said:

Although I'd venture that nobody would be able to pick out a Pod vs Kemper vs Fender Deluxe mic'd up accurately... I say that as someone who'd seen similar done recently.

I would venture that many if not most people could tell the difference in a blindfold test if the test involved doing the playing themselves and also making guitar volume and tone changes and pickup selections. Definitely between the Pod and the other two at least. Maybe less between the Kemper and the Deluxe.

Musicwolf · December 2023

@Kalimna

I have both a Kemper and a Helix. I would say that, to set up an initial patch (amp / cab / effects), then the Helix is by far the easiest to work with. That's either directly from the unit itself or via the editing software (I use the software interface most of the time). Once you have the patch set up then things are a lot closer. The fact that my Kemper is in a rack whilst the Helix is on the floor means that it's actually easier with the Kemper - but that's just down to the ergonomics of my setup.

During the time that I've had them, both units have been well supported with numerous, free, upgrades. It used to be that, in my opinion, the Kemper was the better sounding unit but the Helix had the better user interface. The upgrades have narrowed the gap in both directions but, that said, I still favour the Kemper in the studio (for sound) whilst I now only gig with the Helix (flexibility).

Longevity? I've had my Kemper since May 2015, the Helix since maybe 2019? Both gigged and both used most days.

Heartfeltdawn · December 2023

Rocker said:

The Helix is only one of many similar devices available but I still get great sounds from my POD. The POD is relatively simple to use and while the newer devices ‘do more’, have the sounds they make improved enough to actually consider buying one?

Yes. The Helix stuff is a world apart from the POD in every single way, and I say that as someone who loved the UI of the M-series effects but found the actual effects lacking. Helix gets it right in pretty much every single way for me.

NPP · December 2023

I used to have a PocketPod for practice but always struggled to get a remotely useful sound of it. Lots of variety but always sounded plinky-plonky and weak. Now have an HX Stomp and the difference is night and day. There's a broad range of really useable sounds in there in particular for players like me who don't use a lot of effects and thus need a strong core tone. That said, if I could play at the volume of a loudly strummed acoustic guitar I'd be just as happy with any average valve amp.

Kalimna · December 2023

Musicwolf said:

@Kalimna

I have both a Kemper and a Helix. I would say that, to set up an initial patch (amp / cab / effects), then the Helix is by far the easiest to work with. That's either directly from the unit itself or via the editing software (I use the software interface most of the time). Once you have the patch set up then things are a lot closer. The fact that my Kemper is in a rack whilst the Helix is on the floor means that it's actually easier with the Kemper - but that's just down to the ergonomics of my setup.

During the time that I've had them, both units have been well supported with numerous, free, upgrades. It used to be that, in my opinion, the Kemper was the better sounding unit but the Helix had the better user interface. The upgrades have narrowed the gap in both directions but, that said, I still favour the Kemper in the studio (for sound) whilst I now only gig with the Helix (flexibility).

Longevity? I've had my Kemper since May 2015, the Helix since maybe 2019? Both gigged and both used most days.

Thats very useful info, thank you.

ICBM · December 2023

Remember that the Rockman sounded good when it was used in pro level recording studios.

The key part is the pro level recording studio.

chrisj1602 · December 2023

Danny1969 said:

One of the issues for me, in the studio was getting the Pod to sound in the same space as instruments that were recorded in the live room. Obviously with no natural room ambience and no reverb added it was too in your face and too dry, same as the Sansamp direct amp DI's I liked at the time. So I quickly went back to mic'ing amps and putting the Pod into the front end of the amp that was mic'ed.
Years later in a larger studio I got into sending things that were recorded direct back into the live room via a PA we had set up in there, then we used stereo room mic's to pick that up and mixed it alongside the dry audio to give that dry stuff the ambience of the large live room.

Helix and Pod Go can do the ambience, it’s really whether you have the patience to play with the mics and mic positions etc in the cab settings.. I didn’t!

If I recorded more regularly I’d be happier to invest the time in it.

fretmeister · December 2023

Lewy said:

impmann said:

Although I'd venture that nobody would be able to pick out a Pod vs Kemper vs Fender Deluxe mic'd up accurately... I say that as someone who'd seen similar done recently.

I would venture that many if not most people could tell the difference in a blindfold test if the test involved doing the playing themselves and also making guitar volume and tone changes and pickup selections. Definitely between the Pod and the other two at least. Maybe less between the Kemper and the Deluxe.

Playing it yourself would not be a double blind test.

But I get your point - feel is important.

guitarmangler · December 2023

Here’s a great video by Michael Nielson about the pod and how he thinks it sound now.

There’s a great anecdote in there about when he was a few recording engineer showing a guitar player a pod. The guitar player was impressed and said “I’ve got something like that at home, it’s a room full of amps and a microphone “! Ha!

https://youtu.be/V_Kb9CZuHL0?si=Bfqw2xtSWcdzY_DP

I always thought the pod ( I had an xt, but re bought a pod a few years ago ) was a great way to get a good tone very quickly. Very little
tweaking, lots of playing. I used the pod xt on lots of recordings, and took out to sessions.
I now have a helix lt, and use it pretty much exclusively at home as a headphone amp/recording interface. I’ve saved a few of my own presets and just use those. I’ll play with the amp models a bit, but just go back to my own. I rarely tweak the setting or make new presets.
Sort of like how I used the original pod.

digitalscream · December 2023

Having used both extensively (although not concurrently), I would say that there's no comparison to be made. In terms of amp models, the Helix amps actually sound like the amps they're modelling - only a couple in the POD were even close, IMO. There's also the "fizz" that came with the POD that just isn't there on the Helix, and all the models on the Helix behave properly and predictably when it comes to playing dynamics and using the guitar's controls.

Then you've got the effects blocks - again, no comparison is realistic, because the POD doesn't even try relative to the Helix. Delays, modulation, even the drives...they all have at least as many controls as the original pedals, and you just don't get anything like that level of control on the POD.

Signal routing...well, there isn't any on the POD. You're stuck with the order of effects that it gives you, and that's it. Sure, you can do wacky stuff on the Helix with the four signal paths and blending between them or running them independently, but the very basic stuff like "put these pedals in the order they'd be on my pedalboard" is kind of important too.

Speaker emulation - the most important aspect of the modeller with respect to realism. Modern modellers aren't there yet, even with IRs, but what's there on the Helix craps all over the POD.

Then you've got the quality of life stuff like snapshots, delay/reverb trails, footswitches split between snapshots and stomp mode, expression control etc - these things are all important for live use.

Hell, even for desktop use there's no comparison, because you can just get the HX Stomp instead - most of the functionality of the full Helix, smaller than a POD.

I can't think of a single use case where the POD is comparable to the Helix, except maybe when you need a modeller and you've only got £50 in your pocket. Even then, the Behringer V-Amp Pro is better in terms of sound, IMO.

jasonbone75 · December 2023

I agree with @digitalscream above on the old gen vs new. I think I am more fond of IRs than he perhaps though

I don't agree with making a comparison between helix (or insert any other modeller) and kemper being that useful. They are nothing alike in process or use case due to modelling vs profile capturing. I appreciate you can make a comparison with what you like and how they feel to play but comparing their sounds doesn't make sense to me because they both start at opposite ends of the spectrum to get to the end sound. I can't decide if it is just semantics or not but the thought is that you use the kemper to capture a sound/feel/moment in time/classic piece of gear. The modeller you build blocks together to sculpt a tone that may or may not be based on a real-world equivalent. Perhaps the fact you can duplicate the rig that you captured with the profiler using modelling blocks and then potentially compare all three means I'm in a circular argument with myself...arse.

Nerine · December 2023

In answer to the OP, yes. Vastly superior. Not even close, IMO.

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Are Helix type devices any better than a 20 year old POD?

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